Desert Mountain...20 years old

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Although not the first of the modern desert courses, Desert Mountain,developed by Lyle Anderson, is the only residential golf complex with 6 Jack Nicklaus golf courses. Anderson started with Desert Highlands, the home of the first Skins Game, a few years earlier and has also  developed Superstition Mountain in Arizona, Loch Lomond in Scotland, Las Campanas in New Mexico and Hokuli'a in Hawaii. Oh, to have purchased a lot with 2 memberships 20 years ago.



Here's Bill Huffman's article in today's East Valley Tribune:


Gamble survives to become 'World’s best golf community’
Bill Huffman, For the Tribune
It was 20 years ago this month that architect Jack Nicklaus and developer Lyle Anderson unveiled the Renegade Course at Desert Mountain, the first of six Nicklaus-designed layouts that ultimately defined the upscale northeast Scottsdale golf community.

I remember what the critics said at the time: A golf course like Renegade, which featured two flags/pins/cups on each hole, was too radical and was doomed to be a bust. And, oh, by the way, nobody is going to pay $150,000 to $275,000 for a golf course lot that is 45 minutes from downtown Phoenix even if two free memberships are part of the deal!

Today, Desert Mountain is 98 percent sold out with the remaining home sites being offered at an average price of $2 million each. The membership fee is now a staggering $325,000 (included with the price of the lot), meaning no club in the Southwest is more elite.

In retrospect, Desert Mountain was a spectacular gamble by Anderson that involved 8,000 acres of High Sonoran desert. Incredibly, he purchased the land for $45 million, or about the average sum of one month’s real-estate sales at Desert Mountain over the past 20 years.

Here's the rest of the article:

www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/88071

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

I have seen first hand the evolutoin of Desert Mtn over the years and it truly changed so much of what residential and golf community living is all about.

Lyle Anderson was smart enough to brand his facility with a direct and exclusive tie to Jack Nicklaus. Clearly, you are seeing a difference in that approach as a number of golf oriented facilities (e.g. Bandon, etc, etc) are branding themselves with a variety of courses and different architects (although the upcoming new installment at Bandon will once again have team Doak involved).

Desert Mtn originally featured Renegade and while some likely laughed at such a concept I think the desire to provide maximum flexibility for the play of the course works quite well.

One of my personal favorite courses was the original Geronimo. Tom Doak highlighed in his "Confidential Guide" book and spoke directly about the degree of difficulty of the layout. Geronimo provided a superb test -- provided you followed Clint Eastwood's advice, "a man's got to know his limitations," and play the appropriate tee boxes.

Geronimo was simply breathtaking in its overall scale and its connection to the surroundings -- the proximity of the Tonto Forest and the fact that homes would have little connection to the course made for a stunning golf round.

Clearly, some of that has changed since then. The course was altered when the 13th (the long uphill dog-leg left par-4) and 14th holes were changed dramatically -- sad to say to allow for more construction on the property. I still think that the bowl-shaped green at the short par-4 14th was one of Jack's most unique creations and likely was a forerunner to what he would be designing in the years ahead.

The concluding holes at Geronimo are also quite special. The long par-4 16th with its jutting plateau tee that forces a carry across the desert wash is still an intimidating shot -- I'd be curious if that tee box is still used. The short 17th plays uphill and is nicely done and then you have the rather unconventional but solid par-3 18th to a green that gives little room to succeed. Having the statue of Geronimo in the rear of the green adds to the round's climax.

Not all of the DM courses have worked as well. Apache is really a letdown from the others. I also have never seen Cochise as a major plus -- save for the fact that it hosted the Tradition for all those years.

To Anderson's credit -- he was able to get Jack to come forward with Chirichua which is truly an inspired layout. Jack's short 2nd hole -- which plays just about 300 yards to a bowl-shaped green is a superb hole that gets little attention. The rest of the course is also quite impressive.

Lastly, the work at Outlaw needs to be celebrated. Having the course away from the others has allowed the design there to be isolated and at the same time unique.

You have zero clutter as houses will not be permitted off the course because of land restrictions there. I simply love the course -- there's plenty of diversity and when people here on GCA ask for well-crafted putting surfaces and a wide diversity of holes and challenges -- Outlaws clearly provides that without an overdose of extreme demands that you will encounter with the likes of a few of the others.

Yes, the issue with the short par-4 10th needs to be addressed -- a simple adjustment of the angle to the green would be of immense help. Nonetheless, Outlaw demonstrates a clear separation in terms of style and outcome from all the others.

Steve, thanks for sharing the article. Now many people wish they could have joined and had the memberships to boot. No doubt the place gets really jammed during the height of the winter time frame with the invasion of all the snow birds -- but DM still has currency and provides a fascinating connection to the desert environment with a golf connection.

[Adam Clayman]

Is commercial success the yardstick which quality GCA should be measured?

I say absolutely not.

There's no accounting for taste.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

I'll forgive you for the comment -- "no accounting for taste" --there's no accounting for ignorance either. IMHO, Desert Mountain offered much more than just commercial success.

Don't know if you have played any or all of the layouts there but the architectural evolution of Nicklaus and is talented team is there to be seen if you keep your eyes and mind open to such things.

*****

Renegade offered a different approach to design and I think that's a positive. What's so ironic and often amusing is that when people on this site bitch and moan about the need for innovation and then when they get it a certain few of these same people continue to whine and bark about not still getting such things. How predictable from some indeed.

One of the more difficult aspects in having multiple courses under the roof of one architect is in achieving the kind of separate course identities that allow for each to be seen as rather special individuals. Clearly, when you have six courses the wherewithal to strike such a creative pulse can be quite taxing and as I stated previously not all of the layouts there in my opinion are equals through and through. Desert Mtn is still a rather special place in my book. What one saw with Jack's original effort at Desert Highlands has been taken to a larger canvass and to Lyle Anderson's considerable credit the overall theme of the place still gives those coming in 2007 a rather unique meeting ground for golf and the desert environment working in tandem. For those seeking insight into desert golf a visit there -- if possible -- would be most illuminating.

P.S. What's so funny is that a number of the more recent desert openings have featured nothing more than basic 101 level designs with very little desire to be thought-provoking and creative. Golf-lite has indeed taken hold with a number of such courses that are offering golf as nothing more than a diversion to add to their botton line real estate agenda.

[Tom Yost]

...Oh, to have purchased a lot with 2 memberships 20 years ago.

No kidding.  Then, as now, they remain out of my reach, but I'm guessing the lots were probably around $250K at that time.

The wife and I went up there shortly after Renegade opened to have a look, and I recall watching a coyote trot across the road then stop on the side to check us out as we slowly passed.

Tom

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: I would say that the biggest obstacle in using one architect for 6 courses is avoiding repetition and it appears from your review that is not the case at Desert Mountain.  The member does not want 72 holes of sameness while the architect doesn't want to get bored doing the same thing over and over.  Did the property itself allow for variety or was Jack imaginative enough to pull it off on his own?

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

Good points you mentioned.

What's important to realize is that Team Nicklaus clearly has changed over the years and you can see element of that with the six courses at Desert Mtn.

What is amazing to me is how little some people view a few of the courses there. Chirichua and Outlaw, to name just two, are extremly well done and quite unique -- from the land, routing and shot values side of things.

Clearly, you see developers trying to avoid using the same designer for the very reasons you posted. Sameness can certainly be an issue and can be dreadful thing for members to handle.

Jerry, keep this in mind, there are a number of people - some on this site - who view desert golf in very skeptical terms. Fair enough. I've always fancied such golf because of the potential to add something that truly is not "native" to the area.

At Desert Mtn there is land for the more rugged and native areas -- you also have some land where the rugged qualities have been tempered a fair amount. I see the answer to your question being a bit of both -- I have to say Lyle Anderson and Jack Nicklaus were the key reasons for the explosion of desert golf / real estate that has come to exist throughout much of Maricopa County. Jack's team of people clearly tried to provide some real differentiation between all of them. I've weighed in with my preferences and have to say that as a golf community the totality of what is there at Desert Mtn still has significant relevance from a golf design standpoint.

Just realize that those who despise desert golf will feel completely different which is fine with me. Ditto those who don't see Jack Nicklaus as a designer of quality golf options. To each his own.




 Did the property itself allow for variety or was Jack imaginative enough to pull it off on his own?

[Adam Clayman]

Matt- Perhaps you should stop saluting so much.

Ignorance, to me, is coming on here and expressing your overwhelming approval for a design that hasn't been opened a year and has made much needed major changes to 14 holes.

I'll leave it you to figure out which course that is.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

By all means enlighten me on whatever info you have to offer on what has happened at Desert Mtn.

I'm not a member of Desert Mtn and my comments come from the actual times I have played the courses in question. My last visit was to play Outlaw and that was not long after the course first opened. If things have happened since then please post in great detail.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I've had the privilege of playing Renegade shortly after it opened and Geronimo before the changes and Cochise a few years ago. It's a magnificent development,the courses are superbly maintained and the development is a  financial success but I never got the feel of a private club there as there are 5 clubhouses and who knows how many members. It is very busy in the high winter season. When I  played Renegade in 1989 I bought a Pringle of Scotland sweater that I still own but may not be able to fit into. I should have bought a lot instead. The 2 memberships deal was for locals to buy into the club and sell the lot later with 1 membership and retain the other membership for themselves.

[JWL]

Adam

You apparently know more about what is going on at Desert Mountain, and specifically Outlaw, that I do.

If 14 holes have been altered since the opening, I probably need to get out there and check out what they are doing.

However, if you could just tell me about the changes, it might save me a trip.

I would appreciate that very much, because my travel schedule is presently pretty full.   Thanks for your input.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Jack really went out on a limb when he designed the Renegade.  People either loved the concept or hated it.  I thought it was great fun.  When I played it, I hit to both sets of flags.,  It was a ball.  Desert Mountain is way to rich for my blood but Anderson came up with a winner.  
I realize that Jack tried to be creatively different with each course, I still wonder what DM would be like if he had employed a couple of other achitects.  

[Adam Clayman]

No, My reference was not about Desert Mountain.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I find the beauty of this project in the vision, business plan, promotion and packaging. I do not find the architecture or any aspect of it to be the strength of the project.

[Tony Petersen]

Having played out of Desert Mountain for the past 4 years, I thought I would add my 2c worth (keep in mind that I'm a junkie and have played all of the courses many, many times)

My Desert Mountain Top 6
1. Outlaw
2. Geronimo
3. Chircahua / Renegade (tie)
5. Cochise
6. Apache (though the back 9 is very, very good)

Outlaw - A beautiful Santa Barbara betty with just a touch of Scarface Seriously guys, if the Gods are smiling and you stay out of the fairway bunkers... and you know fast and firm... and you can understand gravity... You can go low on Outlaw. The fun to be had lies in the first, second, or third shots, but there's something to be said about aiming 30 yards left of the pin to a blind knoll 10 yards off the green and ending up 2 feet from the pin (#4). The greens are fantastic, the wind is pretty much always a factor... FUN short 4's, a nice variety in the 5's. TOUGH 3's (though similar in yardage)...the routing is 10/8 and akin to an inverted double clip which is unique. I would even dare to venture that close to all of the classic templates are well-represented in the design. The course whispers to you in time...It's really that good

More to follow... Nappy time

[cary lichtenstein]

You gotta have alot of respect for Llye Anderson, his vision and the enormous success of this and his other projects.

[Jerry Kluger]

It is interesting to contrast this with the Cliffs - upscale housing but more spread out - using many big time architects rather than one - has anyone been there - how's the golf?

[Matt_Ward]

Before we begin to venture off the discussion on Desert Mtn -- I will say this about The Cliffs -- it's nicely done and I really enjoy playing the original 18.

No doubt employing different architects is a branding attempt to provide maximum diversity in terms of what the courses can provide.

Desert Mtn can easily be minimized by anti-desert type people who see little value in such settings. So be it.

I greatly admire what Lyle Anderson did because at the time the whole concept of such a major development far from the reaches of inner Phoenix was indeed a bold move. Jack Nicklaus and his design team did a solid effort in giving the area an array of unique and at times quite refreshing layouts.

I only wish the original 18 at Geronimo were still around but the course is still solid in so many ways. Clearly, there are differences in the layouts there and Outlaw, IMHO, is one that those who often downplay what Team Nicklaus can do is a course that is truly magical and set in a location that offers a winning combination of golf and desert scenery.