Your Canadian Top 10....???

[Alan Carter]

Noticing a thread that was started last October asking for a worldwide Top 10 course list, it popped to mind that I would enjoy seeing our Canadian contingent (or our American or International friends, if they are comfortable with their knowledge of our Canadian courses) pass along a current Top 10 list of their favourite Canadian courses.

Yes, I know many of you know that I am involved in Jasper and trust me no offence will be taken to anyone who's list does not include it.

Thanks and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary Slatter]

Alan, enjoyed seeing you at Mayakoba!

My top 10 Canadian courses, for today!  They are in sort of an order:
St.George's   Toronto
Banff (old)     Banff
Jasper           Jasper
Capilano         Vancouver
Toronto Golf Club   Toronto
Hamilton GC     Ancaster
Westmount GC   Kitchener
St. Thomas     Union, Ontario
Highlands Links  Cape Breton
Tie  Islington and Maple Downs

I'd play any of them with you, and give me 6 shots!

[Paul Stephenson]

Of the courses I've played:

St. George's - Toronto, ON
Cataraqui - Kingston, ON
Banff - Banff, AB
Lookout Point - Fonthill, ON
St. Thomas - Union, ON
Beacon Hall - Aurora, ON
Weston - Toronto, ON
Kawartha - Peterborough, ON
Cutten Club - Guelph, ON
Cherry Downs - Pickering, ON (for the greens)

[Tyler Kearns]

Paul,

Are the greens at Cherry Downs always so exessively fast!! I played there a few years ago, and while I certainly enjoy contour as much as anyone, the green speeds made putting a defensive affair. I can imagine they would provide plenty of interest and fun with the mowers raised a little bit.

TK

[Alan Carter]

Alan, enjoyed seeing you at Mayakoba!

My top 10 Canadian courses, for today!  They are in sort of an order:
St.George's   Toronto
Banff (old)     Banff
Jasper           Jasper
Capilano         Vancouver
Toronto Golf Club   Toronto
Hamilton GC     Ancaster
Westmount GC   Kitchener
St. Thomas     Union, Ontario
Highlands Links  Cape Breton
Tie  Islington and Maple Downs

I'd play any of them with you, and give me 6 shots!

Pro, you and six shots???  I might give you six in Jasper, Banff and Maple.  Beyond that we would have to discuss it.  Islington in your Top 10 is very interesting.  The others I couldn't really argue.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Gary,
Old Banff is so much better than New.

Old Banff
Jasper
BlackHawk
New Banff
Wolf Creek
GreyWolf

[Paul Stephenson]

Tyler,

I get to play Cherry Downs a few times a year.  It's a great second shot course.  I have noticed over the past couple of years the speeds have been a bit slower, and there have been more interesting pin positions as a result.

They host a fall scramble where they speed the greens up and put pins in funny spots.  It sometimes crosses the line when you see 4 guys putt it off the green.

[Robert Thompson]

In no apparent order....

St. George's
Jasper
Hamilton
Toronto GC
Capilano
Devil's Paintbrush
Highlands
Blackhawk
Eagles Nest
Oviinbyrd

[Matthew MacKay]

Not necessarily in order...

St. George's
Highlands
Hamilton
Toronto Golf
The National (though I haven't seen the recent changes)
Capilano
Blackhawk
Eagle's Nest
Paintbrush
Scarboro (once Ian and Gil get their hands on it)

[Dan Herrmann]

How does Glen Abbey rate?

I know that when it opened, it was supposed to be "the" course for Canada - they had the Open yearly and it was the public destination course for everybody I knew in Upstate NY.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Alan,
I would be interested to hear your list.

When Rob, Ian, Jeff M and I did our top 25 in an In My Opinion piece, here were the results:

1. Highlands Links
2. St. George’s
3. Jasper Park Lodge
4. Hamilton
5.  Banff Springs
6. Capilano Golf and Country Club
7. Toronto Golf Club
8. National GC
9. Devil’s Paintbrush
10. Eagles Nest Golf Club
11. Blackhawk Golf Club
12. Westmount G&CC
13. Wolf Creek
14. Cataraqui Golf and Country Club
15. Bigwin Island

That is relatively close to mine, with the exception that I think Maple Downs, Mount Bruno and Scarboro would easily knock Westmount and Bigwin out and fight for the other spot.

Paul,
I am happy to see Cataraqui so high on your list, I am a great fan of the course.

Dan,
In that same IMO piece, we had the Abbey at 25. It is a course whose style has fallen out of fashion, but it has also gotten worse with the addition of homes to the already weak front nine. The stretch from 11-18 is pretty strong though and I think (for better or worse) it is still worthy of a top 20 spot in Canada.

[Matthew MacKay]

Dan, Glen Abbey's reputation has probably actually suffered because of its long-time association with the Canadian Open. People expect so much of it, and it really is not an elite Canadian course. But, as Ben mentions it has some really good holes on the back nine, and certainly is still one the best post-1970 courses built in Canada.

After you get past the first half or so of a top 10 in Canada there is much room for debate. I can think of many courses that could crack the bottom of that list.

[Peter Pallotta]

Gents
thanks. I haven't played any of the courses listed, so I can't comment. I'm struck by how high Eagles Nest ranks for all of you; I'd heard/read it was good, but I didn't realize it was so good. I guess this summer I'll have to suck it up and pay that green fee to at least play it once.  (By the way, I'm also struck by how many times I've been introduced to a course by a friend, found that I really liked it, and then found out that it was a Doug Carrick design. He seems to always make a lot out of sometimes not very good sites.)

For those of you who play a lot, especially around the GTA, any thoughts on "top 10 modest courses", i.e. public courses with reasonable green fees that offer architectural interest and fun? (I was trying not to use 'hidden gems').

Thanks
Peter

[Wayne_Kozun]

Old Banff
Jasper
BlackHawk
New Banff
Wolf Creek
GreyWolf

Nothing wrong with these courses Mike, but I would suggest a visit to the Eastern half of the country!

[Wayne_Kozun]

I would add Redtail to the courses already given.

@Peter - Osprey Valley has three strong courses, particularly the Heathlands course.  Eagle's Nest has already been mentioned and Bond Head is also pretty good.  These may fit what you are looking for although it depends on your definition of reasonable.

[Paul Stephenson]

Peter,

If you want really reasonable visit Uplands.  It's a Stanley Thompson but only 9 holes remain.  Still, its very hilly, interesting  terrain and the par 3 8th hole always seems to be in the rankings of best par 3s in the world.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Peter,
Uplands is a good selection, if only to see some neat green complexes and play the 8th hole.

Lakeview, Strong's effort across from the Toronto GC is a real cool course, which has the cheapest green fee in the city that I am aware of.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, gents.
Ben, Wayne - Yes, I play Lakeview often, and it is one of my favourites, as are all three of the Osprey Valley courses. Btw, there's also Westview, which I think has several very fine holes amongst its 27, especially given that it seems to have been laid out by its first owner-operator. It's still a good bargain. I've rarely heard a bad thing about Bond Head, so I should try to play it.
Paul - I've read about Uplands (I believe on Ian Andrew's site) but have never gotten out there. I hope to now.  

Peter

[Gary Slatter]

Alan, enjoyed seeing you at Mayakoba!

My top 10 Canadian courses, for today!  They are in sort of an order:
St.George's   Toronto
Banff (old)     Banff
Jasper           Jasper
Capilano         Vancouver
Toronto Golf Club   Toronto
Hamilton GC     Ancaster
Westmount GC   Kitchener
St. Thomas     Union, Ontario
Highlands Links  Cape Breton
Tie  Islington and Maple Downs

I'd play any of them with you, and give me 6 shots!

Pro, you and six shots???  I might give you six in Jasper, Banff and Maple.  Beyond that we would have to discuss it.  Islington in your Top 10 is very interesting.  The others I couldn't really argue.

Islington is in my top 10 for several reasons:
1. Qualified for the Canadian Open at St.George's by holing a 20 footer on Islington's 18th
2. In two rounds at Islington in July 1975 (Pro Jr Press Day and Interclub) I shot 65 both times, 9 birdies both times, did not birdie same hole twice! Good Eclectic score!  Played both rounds with Pro Jim McKitterick. Alas, Shot 76 in their Pro Am the next month.

[Gary Slatter]

Peter,

If you want really reasonable visit Uplands.  It's a Stanley Thompson but only 9 holes remain.  Still, its very hilly, interesting  terrain and the par 3 8th hole always seems to be in the rankings of best par 3s in the world.

I always loved Uplands, used to think that's what Thornhill GC could be, if they didn't spend so much money.  Great Uplands memories, Reg Acombe, Eager Beaver, Moe, Lorne Rubenstein, Dave Dean, Knudson....the good old days!

[Alan Carter]

Ben, here is where the numbers fall when I submit both my Score and Golf Digest Rankings.

1. St. Georges
2. The National
3. Hamilton
4. Capilano
5. Highland Links
6. Banff Springs
7. Beacon Hall
8. Royal Montreal
9. Westmount
10. Glen Abbey
11. Toronto Golf Club
12. Mississauga
13. St. Thomas
14. Devil's Pulpit
15. Maple Downs

I don't have Jasper in the list, because I'm not allowed to cast a vote for a course I'm involved with.

[Gary Slatter]

Ben, here is where the numbers fall when I submit both my Score and Golf Digest Rankings.

1. St. Georges
2. The National
3. Hamilton
4. Capilano
5. Highland Links
6. Banff Springs
7. Beacon Hall
8. Royal Montreal
9. Westmount
10. Glen Abbey
11. Toronto Golf Club
12. Mississauga
13. St. Thomas
14. Devil's Pulpit
15. Maple Downs

I don't have Jasper in the list, because I'm not allowed to cast a vote for a course I'm involved with.

Beacon Hall is only half the course Mad River was when it opened.  I forgot the National on my list of the day, it's always in my top 5. I love the fact that all the courses are reasonably old, but how does Glen Abbey stay in the top 10?

[Alan Carter]

I always enjoyed the Abbey.  I believe that Jack did a great job of designing a course that served as a great venue to watch tournament golf.  I think the course is very playable for the average player, yet proves to be no pushover for the better player.  I can't make that statement about many courses that host PGA Tour events.  Although the front nine is on a very dull piece of property the wind always manages to keep life interesting.  The back nine is great and the finishing few always manage to stir up excitement, whether it be in a tournament or in a simple Tuesday afternoon round with your buddies.

I've always enjoyed the place.  Though, it has been quite a few years since my last visit.  Maybe my impressions would change a bit next time around.  

[Kalen Braley]

On a related note

Which states could rival Canada's list head to head?  We'll go with the obvious NY, California, and Michigan.. which other ones?

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Ben, here is where the numbers fall when I submit both my Score and Golf Digest Rankings.

1. St. Georges
2. The National
3. Hamilton
4. Capilano
5. Highland Links
6. Banff Springs
7. Beacon Hall
8. Royal Montreal
9. Westmount
10. Glen Abbey
11. Toronto Golf Club
12. Mississauga
13. St. Thomas
14. Devil's Pulpit
15. Maple Downs

I don't have Jasper in the list, because I'm not allowed to cast a vote for a course I'm involved with.

Thanks Alan. I like your list a lot. My two major disagreements are with RM (have you seen it since Rees has been there?), which I did not like much before and dislike more now and Beacon Hall. I have never understood the passion for Beacon. I agree with Gary's thoughts re:Mad River and I think I vote that somewhere between 15-20 for Score.

I do love St. Thomas as well. Are you a fan of Cat? What about Pulpit over Paintbrush?