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Lloyd_Cole

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2007, 07:40:41 PM »
Penha Longa nr Lisbon was a very pleasant surprise - full of quirk and challenge. It's also on Kyle Phillips web sit so how much KP, how much RTJ II, I don't know.

Sean_A

  • Total Karma: 2
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2007, 08:00:14 PM »
I played a few Jr courses, Cochiti Lake and Orchards.  Both are good enough courses, though I didn't get terribly excited about either.  I would play Cochiti Lake again because its cheap and cheerful and the views are lovely.  The course could be better and in fact changes may have been made since my visit about 10 years ago.  I wouldn't play the Orchards.  If I am up Orchards way I would much rather play Shepherd's Hollow.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Total Karma: 2
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2007, 10:17:26 PM »
Sean, I think Wigler just ame out of dead sleep when you said if up that way you would rather lay a Hills course.lolololol. I too found SH to be a pretty good course.

Sean_A

  • Total Karma: 2
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2007, 04:30:40 AM »
Tiger

Wigs isn't the only guy on this site who has a thing about Hills.  I for one can't understand all the hate.  Hills, like most archies does some good stuff and some mediocre stuff.  He's from a different era of design and I am sure he gave his clients what they wanted.  

I think Wigs is a bit uptight about the UofM "restoration".  He does have a point in that the uni should have taken the time to get a guy who was more in tune with Dr. Mac/P. Maxwell.  Most of the complaints are about the bunkering which to me isn't a huge deal.  However, if you are gonna spend a ton of dough they should have been done better, but at the end of the day they are just pits with sand in them.  The good and most important thing about the redo was the tree clearance.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Scott_Burroughs

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2007, 11:21:20 AM »
Of the 6 RTJ II courses I've played, Chambers Bay is easily the best, with Princeville (Prince) and Spanish Bay the next tier.

Phil McDade

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2007, 11:57:12 AM »
I played University Ridge yesterday and they are in the process of renovating the course.  Essentially they are adding back tee boxes on nearly every hole, adding about 350 yards in total and making it 7,240 yards.  Some of the holes will be extremely difficult, like 17 at 247 yards over water.

Jim,
   Back in the 90s when regularly I played University Ridge (for the student fee as a grad student), I found #17 to be tough enough at about 200 yards.  At 247 yards it is going to be downright scary. :o
   I'd consider playing University Ridge on a monthly basis or so if it weren't for the death-march pace of play that I used to experience out there.  I can't imagine it being any better now than 10 years ago.  Its a fun course to play otherwise.

Cheers,
Brad

...and pace of play has a lot to do with RTJ Jr.'s crappy routing and design of the front nine. The start is good enough (medium-length par 4 from an elevated tee), but it gets goofy quickly, with an odd par 5 that screams "go for it" to all but the hobbled, but is actually a par 5 with all kinds of trouble around the green and elsewhere for those who try and fail to get there in two. It's compounded by the layup looking like it should be a 7-iron (at most) that's set at a right angle to the fairway. It's followed by a very hard par 3 (harder, in my view, than the much-acclaimed 17th) that is all carry over a marsh to a wide but shallow green. And that's followed still by a nerve-wracking uphill par 4 where anything left of the fairway is likely to be behind a row of giant trees, and anything right is down below in the muck and unfindable.

All of this, of course, makes for a four-hole opening that -- in all seriousness -- has sometimes taken me 90 minutes to play. Backups on the par 5, waits on tees, looking for lost balls -- all of it occurs with all-too-familiar frequency at URidge's opening. It's like much of URidge -- taken individually, RTJ Jr designed some very good holes, and actually has several good ones on the back nine that promote risk-and-reward decision-making. But taken together, the course flows poorly, and its opening holes in particular make for a less-than-auspicious introduction to the course.

Add in its near-un-walkability (it's over some really hilly terrain in parts), and I've always viewed URidge as a great opportunity lost.