Robert Trent Jones, Jr.

[John Kavanaugh]

So little time, so many Jones.  http://tinyurl.com/yt7pd9 Seeing the list of courses in the previous link what are you expectations when planning a round at a RTJ, Jr. course?

[Garland Bayley]

Large bunkers to steer clear of.

[RJ_Daley]

The Wikepedia list seems quite incomplete.  What is up with listing University Ridge twice, in '91 when it was constructed and 2007?  Are they going to remodel or add a 9 somehow?  

I only played a couple of RTJjr courses, walked a few others like Spanish Bay, and hope to walk around the grow-in Chambers next week.  I expect an excellent golf course, environmentally sensitive but somewhat conventional in contouring/shaping in FWs and greens, and solid construction-but not particularly imaginative placement or styling of bunkering.  Good routing, and due to his long time reputation and lineage, only upper end projects in terms of pricing and status.  I'm hoping that Chambers Bay is a homerun and from pictures, appears to be a break-out of his conventional mode.

[redanman]

Dick

Ute Creek (A very good front range cheapie in CO) is notably absent from the list as well as the Kaluhyat (Turning Stone) in NY, just off the top of my pointy little.

I expect moderately good to excellent quality strategies.

[John Kavanaugh]

Has anyone played both Windsor and Red Stick in Vero Beach, FL that were done by Robert and Rees respectively...Are there any two courses done by the brothers any closer?  Does the difference in style between the two brothers jump off the page when working on such similar land?

[TEPaul]

RTJ never gets much respect and love on here it seems but like all the heavyweights, if pressed he sure could produce. I'll tell you one thing from having been there for my very first time, that 16th green and green-end he did at ANGC is just totally brilliant through and through.

[Andy Troeger]

I don't have much depth with RTJ Jr, but I've not been disappointed with any of the three of his courses that I have seen.

Two of them end up with rather unique par fives involving water. The one at Las Sendas is fun, the one at Wedgewood was not one of my favorites on the course as it was really hard for a short hitter.

Only other trend I noticed was that the front nines tended to be more interesting on these courses than the back. The first seven holes at Wedgewood are outstanding.

[Michael Dugger]

I expect an above average conditioned golf course, which often times can mean too much money was spent moving dirt around creating containment mounding and catch basins (which will function well when it comes to repelling water, which is intergral to above average conditioning )

The course will more than likely consist of two loops of nine, four par 5 and 3s, and nary a drivable par four.  There may or may not be a great deal of strategy in the driving game, the bunkering will probably be more penal than strategic.  

Like his pops, a Jr. course will probably adhere to the "tough par, easy bogey" standard.  I expect to encounter quite a bit of water, I will not be surprised IN THE LEAST to find an all-water carry par 3.  The greens will have some good-sized lumps and a few interesting pin placements, but nothing will probably strike me as utterly trendsetting, timeless or uber unique.

I imagine most of Jr's courses occupying average to above average pieces of land, yet there will be something kinda stale about the whole picture, leaving the most critical of eyes feeling slightly let down......yet you wouldn't even know where to start, because the basic "style" of design permeates over every acre of the property.

To be fair....I like our local course here in Portland, Heron Lakes Great Blue, quite a lot.  It is a Jr. design.  I recently read the design associate was Kyle Phillips, which may or may not say something about the final product.

Other than that I echo RJ Daley's thoughts; Chamber's Bay is looking fantastic and I am absolutely pumped up to check it out.  But it seems a deviation from the norm which is v ery refreshing to see.  Jay Blasi probably deserves a lot of credit.  
 

[Billsteele]

JK-While I have played neither, I know that the Sandestin Golf and Beach Resort in Destin, Florida has The Raven Golf Club (designed by RTJ, Jr.) and Burnt Pine Golf Club (designed by Rees).

[Doug Ralston]

Prairie View in Indiannapolis is a pretty good RTJ JR course. Tough challenge with some small steep bunkers and tight fairway. Rough was velcro, as I recall.

Attractive course IMHO also. Rather overpriced for the area, but I got a birthday freebie  

Doug

[Willie_Dow]

Having played Windsor, it was a wide open vast piece of lowland sand - with wide and comforting fairways.  Expecting condos to frame the holes !  That was some years ago, and I have not had another experience.
Sort of like Wild Dunes, in my imagination !

Rees has yet to define Red Stick!  Something I have yet to  play.  Yet, again, I have comments from others - like why didn't the course take more of the natural sandhills into the architecture?

Sorry I can't add more.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think all of your guys will love Chambers Bay. I hope to  see it soon myself. They are #2 to Jack overseas.

[Bob Jenkins]

Really looking forward to Chambers Bay.

The only other RTJ2 courses I have played are Spanish Bay and Chateau Whistler. They are both very, very different and Chateau Whistler is one of the best I have seen in mountain terrain. It is also a heck of a lot of fun, although a tough walk for a lot of people.

Saw Spanish Bay again last weekend for the first time in a long while. It is one of those courses you need to play two days in a row to appreciate. Even with caddies, I could not appreciate the quirks that were out there, although that may be due more to my inadequacies. Fun place but definitely quirky.

[Jim Colton]

The Wikepedia list seems quite incomplete.  What is up with listing University Ridge twice, in '91 when it was constructed and 2007?  Are they going to remodel or add a 9 somehow?  

I only played a couple of RTJjr courses, walked a few others like Spanish Bay, and hope to walk around the grow-in Chambers next week.  I expect an excellent golf course, environmentally sensitive but somewhat conventional in contouring/shaping in FWs and greens, and solid construction-but not particularly imaginative placement or styling of bunkering.  Good routing, and due to his long time reputation and lineage, only upper end projects in terms of pricing and status.  I'm hoping that Chambers Bay is a homerun and from pictures, appears to be a break-out of his conventional mode.

I played University Ridge yesterday and they are in the process of renovating the course.  Essentially they are adding back tee boxes on nearly every hole, adding about 350 yards in total and making it 7,240 yards.  Some of the holes will be extremely difficult, like 17 at 247 yards over water.

[Bill_McBride]

JK-While I have played neither, I know that the Sandestin Golf and Beach Resort in Destin, Florida has The Raven Golf Club (designed by RTJ, Jr.) and Burnt Pine Golf Club (designed by Rees).

I played both of these over a weekend a couple of years ago.  I liked The Raven a bit better - Burnt Pine has built up fairways in marshy terrain with falloffs both sides of too many holes - but neither is "memorable."  There are solid holes on both courses, and large greens without a lot of contour, but I couldn't remember more than two or three on each course without looking at a Strokesaver.

As far as I know, these are indeed the only side by side Rees and RTJ II courses.

[Brad Swanson]

I played University Ridge yesterday and they are in the process of renovating the course.  Essentially they are adding back tee boxes on nearly every hole, adding about 350 yards in total and making it 7,240 yards.  Some of the holes will be extremely difficult, like 17 at 247 yards over water.

Jim,
   Back in the 90s when regularly I played University Ridge (for the student fee as a grad student), I found #17 to be tough enough at about 200 yards.  At 247 yards it is going to be downright scary.
   I'd consider playing University Ridge on a monthly basis or so if it weren't for the death-march pace of play that I used to experience out there.  I can't imagine it being any better now than 10 years ago.  Its a fun course to play otherwise.

Cheers,
Brad

[Wyatt Halliday]

What the hell happened at Arrowhead? How does that setting not inspire?

I am hoping for the best with Chambers Bay.

Tiger,

Do you think its good enough to miss the Middle Tennessee St. game for?

[David Stamm]

I have never been disapponited with playing RTJ,jr courses. I've played a few, Poppy Hills, Desert Dunes, Arizona National (formerly The Raven at Sabino Springs) and have seen most of Spanish Bay. While I think jr's work can be predictable, one could do much, much worse than playing one of his courses. I think RTJ,jr is better than most give him credit for. I wouldn't mind seeing him throw us a curve and do something we wouldn't expect from him, but overall, I like his courses. I plan on going up to play Rancho San Marcos in Santa Barbara as soon as it reopens. I'm looking forward to it.

[Mike Worth]

I once played Landsdowne Resort in Leesburg.  

First few holes are pretty typical Jones "family" templated holes, doglegs, fairways pinched at around 240-260 yards, predicatable (and boring) bunkering.

# 9 is a very good short par 5, but the course really improves and the back 9 is very good.  Jones (or whomever actually did the design) made exception use of a rocky ravine on about 5 of the holes.  The entire back 9 was "memorable."

[Chris_Clouser]

Doug,

Good call on Prairie View.  Probably a top 10 public course in the state that heavily involved Kyle Phillips.  It is much better than the work by Rees Jones at Otter Creek in Columbus.  That's the only comparison I have between the brothers.  

And that freebie thing really sucks for those of us with December birthdays.  Not only do we get short-changed at Christmas, but we lose out on the free rounds at all the places that offer it.  

[Jay Flemma]

I'm not a big prairie view fan, but that's more a matter of personal taste.  I'm always happy when greens fees are inexpensive and Prairie View is known for being a great value...and Indiana is proud of "their PV."

I hear terrific things about chambers bay.

[Doug Ralston]

Chris;

My playing partner has the same complaint; he was born in January.   And Prairie View is better than RTJ's part of Otter Creek too, IMNSHO.

Jay;

PV is about $90, which is quite expensive for the area publics, with I think only  Brickyard Crossing being more. It is only a 'great value' if you get the freebie, which my playing partner and I converted to 'BOGOF'. Oddly, what I remember best is that the primary rough was not high, but very stiff. I also remember that I found about 8 golf balls on the course, 7 ProV's and a B330. I guess that means my rare trip to an 'upscale' was not without compensation  .

Doug

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Chambers Bay sets the mark for RTJ II. Corde Valle is another of his courses they like. We do not see most of the work given well over 60% is overseas the last 5 years.

[mike_beene]

Isn't Wailea Gold RTJ,jr?It has a drivable four and plays tough from the back.One of the better resort driving courses.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played the following courses.

Wailea Golf Club,  
Both Makena Golf Courses,  
CordeValle,  California,
Windsor,  Florida,
Poipu Bay Resort Golf Course,   Hawaii,  
The Prince Course, Princeville, Kauai, Hawaii,  
Pueblo de Cochiti Golf Course,   New Mexico
Lansdowne Resort, Virginia

Pretty much everytime I played one of his courses I was pleasantly surprised.  He does not have very good PR among many golfers.  I really love Princeville and the Makena courses.
I find he tends to have big greens but is generous off the tee.  Other than that most of his courses vary from one another pretty well.