"Retief Goosen is steady". I disagree; he's quietly outstanding.

[Glenn Spencer]

It's harder to recoup from bravado than modesty.  One is a vice.  The other is a virtue.

Oh, please, Shivas!!! Like you would have hit iron off that tee? Are you seriously hinting that hitting a wood of 13 is in the area of bravado?

[Glenn Spencer]

You are a chicken when you lay up off the TEE of a par 5 while tied for the lead in the final round of the Masters.

Like Tiger did on #2?

Tiger hit 3-wood. Knew he could still get there. Try and keep your comments relevant.

Retief hit 1-iron/hybrid. Thought he could still get there. Comments relevant.

How about Tiger on #8?

So you are buying that he was planning on hitting 1-iron down the left side and getting home in 2? I already explained Tiger on 8 to the best of my ability. I also explained Johnson as well. He had a hanging lie with a 3-iron. Caddie is saying it right now on TGC. We know what Goosen's lie was. PERFECT.

So you're calling Goosen a chicken and a liar too?

I'm debating this with you because I see no reason (yet) why I should believe you over Retief Goosen. When has Goosen ever been anything other than straight-up in his interviews?

And even if you were correct about him having no chance to get home in two if he ripped one, I see no reason to question his decision there. I see it as very similar to Tiger's decision on #8 (interesting that it didn't work out for either of them).

Just because you would hit the accelerator in that situation doesn't mean that he should, and I'm going to side with the guy who has won 2 U.S. Opens, and not the guy sitting in front of his keyboard.

(And I think I'm consistent in this regard--I recall making similar points whenever all the "experts" come out and tell Phil how to play the 72nd hole at Winged Foot, tell Michelle Wie which tournaments to play in, etc.)

Chris,

When it comes to me and Goosen, take his advice every time except this one. The hole has been determined how to be played by thousands in the past. This guy comes in and decides to hit an iron off the tee in the final round? Seriously, does it sound fishy that he was trying to cut off the dogleg and get home with a 1-iron, but he couldn't pound 3-wood out right? Doesn't make sense. I am not calling him a liar, just saying his course management makes zero sense. To me or the other 2500 Masters participants in the last 50 years.

[Scott Coan]

Meant to say if he birdies 9 (from 4 feet), does not 3-jack 12 (from 4 feet) and birdies 13 (from 15 feet).  All very makeable - all hit with clean strokes.  He would have leapt a major championship field over the weekend by 8 shots on one of the most difficult courses Augusta has ever delivered.  LEGENDARY would have been the only word to describe him.  And you call him chicken...    

[Glenn Spencer]

Meant to say if he birdies 9 (from 4 feet), does not 3-jack 12 (from 4 feet) and birdies 13 (from 15 feet).  All very makeable - all hit with clean strokes.  He would have leapt a major championship field over the weekend by 8 shots on one of the most difficult courses Augusta has ever delivered.  LEGENDARY would have been the only word to describe him.  And you call him chicken...    

Never said he wasn't playing great!!! All the more reason to hit a wood off 13. You are begging to get beat if you 3-putt 12 and then decide to hit an iron off 13. Begging to get beat. If that is you definition of LEGENDARY, well, mine is a little different. I just can't see any other self-respecting golf professional hitting an iron off a reachable par 5 that has a generous landing area in the final round, while tied for the lead. Every other example that people have given has been someone laying up on the second shot. Toms, Stewart, Johnson. They all were bold enough to hit driver off the tee.

[Scott Coan]

He made the decision that it was not a time for boldness.  He hit 53% of his fairways for the week so he hit hybrid on 13 tee and very nearly birdied it.  He was in the midst of a survival contest and could have won if some of his putts dropped.  I cannot fault his strategy.

Look out for Goose at Oakmont!

[PThomas]

 If he birdies 9, 12, and 13 it goes down as one of the greatest weekends of Major championship golf EVER.

easy Scott, that is a whole TRUNKLOAD of if's!!!

[David Stamm]

Glenn, all those players are alot shorter off the tee than Goosen. He hit a hybrid with the loft of a damn 1 iron. If he says that he was trying to play to the left and didn't pull it off, what do you want from him. I can say with confidence that Goosen can hit his hybrid almost as far as the above mentioned can hit their driver. The advanatge is that Goosen can shape the draw needed for the tee shot that is required. He didn't pull it off and he admitted it. How far is far enough?  The guy as I mentioned can hit the thing 290+!

[David Stamm]

So is Phil an idiot because he goes for it and most of the time in majors it blows up in his face? When is it sound judgement? When they execute it? When are they chicken sh*t? When they play conservatively? If we knew that Retief was not feeling confident about shaping a right to left shot around the corner there, this conversation would be over. The man said afterwards that he missed his line off the tee with the hybrid. He said that if he had hit the line he chose, it would've left him alot closer to the hole. This was a execution snafu, plain and simple. I've watched Goosen ever since he's played on the European Tour. The man hits it a mile. He's had that club in his bag for some time and I've seen him hit 290. The man also admitted afterwards that he never felt comfortable with his swing all week. Taking a driver around the corner on 13 when you feel that way is an awful lot to ask. He was giving himself a chance. What else was he supposed to do, "Oh to hell with it, I'm going for it!"? If it goes in Rae's creek, he's done. And then he would've been questioned about why he didn't hit his hybrid on 13.

 You still didn't answer my question. If he is worried about hitting it left. Why did he take a club that he needed to hug the left side to get home with?  

I believe he was afraid of going left with the driver. There is a difference.

[Glenn Spencer]

He made the decision that it was not a time for boldness.  He hit 53% of his fairways for the week so he hit hybrid on 13 tee and very nearly birdied it.  He was in the midst of a survival contest and could have won if some of his putts dropped.  I cannot fault his strategy.

Look out for Goose at Oakmont!

Scott,

You are not quite getting it. Boldness? Maybe is wasn't time for boldness, but 3-wood or more is the accepted play off the tee on 13. He did decide that it was time for boldness. Doing something that 2500 players in the past haven't done? That is bold!!!!

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn, all those players are alot shorter off the tee than Goosen. He hit a hybrid with the loft of a damn 1 iron. If he says that he was trying to play to the left and didn't pull it off, what do you want from him. I can say with confidence that Goosen can hit his hybrid almost as far as the above mentioned can hit their driver. The advanatge is that Goosen can shape the draw needed for the tee shot that is required. He didn't pull it off and he admitted it. How far is far enough?  The guy as I mentioned can hit the thing 290+!

290 is a long way with that club. Are you sure you want to stand by that?

[Scott Coan]

 If he birdies 9, 12, and 13 it goes down as one of the greatest weekends of Major championship golf EVER.

easy Scott, that is a whole TRUNKLOAD of if's!!!

No question but he already had done all the heavy lifting.  Simple putt of 4 feet on nine.  A 3-putt from the center of the green on twelve and a 15 footer on thirteen.  His putting failed him from the ninth hole on - nothing to do with his strategy.  

[PThomas]

but Scott, there's a lot of players that if we gave them three if's they could have won too

he didn't execute well enough under pressure...just like Tiger and Justin and Vijay and......

[Glenn Spencer]

Harrington and Kelly. Two of the shortest guys out there make eagle and Goosen lays up? The guy is questioning himself right now, believe me. 6 out o the top 8 made birdie or better. Only Rose and Goosen made par. I wonder if Rose was bold enough to hit a wood?

[David Stamm]

I have seen him hit it that far. I don't know what he averages with it, but as you know, if the shot is played with a draw and it catches that speed slot, it can gain at least another 20-30 yds. I believe that's why Tiger has said as well as others that a draw is the preferred play. Many have said that that is easier to pull off with a higher lofted club. A hybrid with the loft of a 1 iron to me in the hands of a player of that length is like hitting a fairway wood. So let's not keep saying he hit a iron, those hybrids are rockets. I have 2 in my bag and I can hit them longer than my irons that replaced them and they had the same loft. I know he can hit the club 270 off the tee farily regularly, so if he can hit the draw and it stops in the garden spot, it probably goes on 13 between 290 and 300. All I know is, he says that he didn't hit the shot the way he was trying to. Take that for what it's worth.

[Joe Hancock]

All this distance talk...wasn't it chilly and breezy?

Joe

[Scott Coan]

but Scott, there's a lot of players that if we gave them three if's they could have won too

he didn't execute well enough under pressure...just like Tiger and Justin and Vijay and......

Totally agreed.  I am just saying that he was in the middle of the cauldron and had the makings of a legendary victory.  They were all very makeable putts but they just did not go in.  ZJ birdies 13,14,16 and he gets the jacket.  Goose was damn close and with Oakmont's reputation for difficulty and extremely sloped greens one would have to put him in as an early favorite.

[Tim Pitner]

Harrington and Kelly. Two of the shortest guys out there make eagle and Goosen lays up? The guy is questioning himself right now, believe me. 6 out o the top 8 made birdie or better. Only Rose and Goosen made par. I wonder if Rose was bold enough to hit a wood?

Glenn,

I don't know what his driving stats were this week, but Harrington is actually rather long off the tee.  I think you're carrying this a bit far about Goosen.  I didn't like the strategy and it obviously didn't pan out.  But, I know that he does hit that hybrid club very far and he thought that he could get home with that club and eliminate the tournament-ending hook off the tee.  I don't believe for a second that Goosen is covering his ass with his comments.  

[Glenn Spencer]

Tim,

You are probably right re Harrington. I just don't think of him in the long category. Goosen? Maybe I am carrying it a little far. I just don't see what everybody is defending? Nobody hits iron there. He loses by 2 and he is only 1 of 2 out of 8 that made par. Nobody can tell me that he is not thinking, "Man, what if I was man enough to eagle or birdie 13? I could have won my first Masters." Instead, he did something nobody has ever had the balls to do. He hit an iron off a reachable par 5 and laid up. Now, that is what I call being comfortable in your manhood.

[PThomas]

what's odd is that, if I remember correctly, he was hitting his driver well that day...on 10, for ex, he hit a beauty I believe

[Glenn Spencer]

9 as well. I don't remember 11. Couldn't have been too bad, made 4.  Harrington averages 3 more yards than Goosen. I never trust those stats though. Goosen is so long that he and Tiger are hitting 3 woods sometimes on the measured holes. Stats do lie. If you need a long drive for your life, you are going to Goosen and not Harrington.

[David Stamm]

what's odd is that, if I remember correctly, he was hitting his driver well that day...on 10, for ex, he hit a beauty I believe

I believe Goosen hit his 3w off the tee on 10. Because of his length, driver isn't needed there. Tiger hit 3w there too. The severity of the downhill shot and, like 13, the ability to hit a draw, because that's what's required there to shorten the hole, makes hitting the lesser club the smarter (percentage) play.


Glenn, Goosen did hit driver off 11. And missed it to the left. I wonder if that may have been on his mind on 13. We just don't know.

[Glenn Spencer]

David,

Thanks for the heads up re 11. If he hits 3-wood, the last thing in the world we are having is this discussion. He hit it well on 10, 13 is just begging for a 3-wood. Nobody on this board is willing to admit that it doesn't make sense. I don't see how it is defendable. One of the greatest players in the world backing away from hitting 3-wood on a generous, reachable par 5? I have watched a lot of golf tournaments, a lot, and I have never seen anything close to this chicken. It just doesn't add up. I guess I should give him credit for being so stubborn. When playing a hole that has been blueprinted many times before, I just don't see how or why you would want to do something so shameful.

[David Stamm]

While I'm not willing to call him a chicken, I do wish he had hit 3 wood. I just don't know if he was feeling confident with the shot. Who knows. I just know that Goosen is a stud and the epitome of the term "Iceman". I really don't think the man is afraid of anything after being struck by lightning. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of his. I wish I could be that cool under pressure on the course. I'm sure it won't be his last chance there, as he has a very good record there. I expect him to win one of the majors this year.

BTW, on Friday night, he put his old irons back in his bag when he found he made the cut. That takes balls in a major!

[Scott Coan]

Glenn,

Calling Goosen chicken and shameful for hitting a hybrid 1-iron off 13 tee is downright assinine.  The guy is playing in US Open-like conditions where par is the name of the game.  If he sinks very makeable putts, he wins.

The very best players in the world could not break par over the weekend, yet this "chicken" and "shameful" player bests par and the field by 5 shots and you are questioning his decision making?

You have no clue what championship golf is all about.

Q. You were hot on the front nine and Zach was hot on the back nine; is it a case of timing is everything, and for a guy who has never won a major in these conditions what does that say about him that he can do that on the back nine?
RETIEF GOOSEN: Zach has been a good player for a long time now as well and it's probably thanks to Zach that I'm sitting here because he messed up on Friday for the last three holes for me to make the cut. So in a way I'm happy I'm here, but in a way I'm sad I didn't win it.
I played very solid on the front nine, and on the back nine I played solid, too. I just couldn't make a putt. I hit a couple of good shots coming in. 15, my third, I thought it was good and just bounced through.
16, somehow the ball stayed on that bank.
Overall, I'm very happy. Obviously giving myself a chance again, but I would like to one year maybe go a little bit further.

Q. Can you talk a little about what happened on 12?
RETIEF GOOSEN: 12, I hit a perfect shot just the way I wanted to hit it, 8-iron in the middle of the green there. I just hit the first putt too soft. It looked a little quicker going down there. And the second one, I just hit it too hard. I hit it through the break.
That was disappointing. I made a lot of good putts today and that one, I had the right line. Just like I said, the speed wore out. From then on, I played a very good shot into 14. I hit a very good putt and didn't go in. And I hit a very good shot into 16 and 17, just got stuck in the banks.

Q. It looked like you picked an iron off the 13th tee box; can you just talk about that?
RETIEF GOOSEN: It's one of these hybrid utility 1-iron-type things. I hit it quite a long way. In the past I've done it, and the fairways, as firm as they now are, you can probably hit that and still get a bit of run down there. If I feed a good one of those down the left side in, I would probably hit a 3-iron in for my second. I blocked it out right, laid up, hit the third just a little bit too hard and hit a good putt. Didn't go in.

[Paul_Turner]

Els blew his chance in 2002 with an 8 on the 13th, went in the creek twice.

Nice, Paul. Thanks. I can't find anything on that. Where was he in the tournament? Wasn't he really in chase mode at that point? I don't think it lost him the tournament. Tiger won that one pretty easily. It might have been the death knell, but it was not Ernie's to win or lose at that point. Goosen was tied for the damn lead.

Glenn,  Els was charging he 'd just got into a tie for second plac.   A 4 instead of an 8 and who knows?