News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

Pages: [1] 2 3

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« on: April 04, 2007, 09:28:22 PM »
Finally having a chance to spend a few minutes studying the new Golf Digest best in State lists, I looked over the Michigan list to begin with.

There are some real head-scratchers to me having seen 15 of the 25 courses on the Michigan list, as well as having played many more which have appeared on other lists of theirs.

1 - where in the heck is Point O'Woods?  #76 in 2003 in the US as well as #3 in the state.  It also was #10 in state as recently as 2005.  How does a course fall off the face of the earth like this????

2 - Franklin Hills at #21?  I'd put this at probably #3 in the state.    How does this excellent course place so poorly?

3 - Indianwood Old  at #25?  This is probably 4 or 5 in my book.  Such an incredible course - makes you feel like you are playing in Scotland or England.  Where's the love?

4 - Kingsley - #16 - about 10 spots too high - should be about #6 or 7.

5 - R & S Sharf, Wyndgate on the list at all - I don't think so.

6 - Barton Hills at #23 - only if they actually go through with the renovation plan that was defeated by the membership.  Today's course is very nice and fun but really needs the restoration that was so close to passing.



These are the most glaring head-scratchers to me.

How about to you???

« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 09:34:12 PM by Paul Richards »
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

John Kavanaugh

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2007, 09:35:16 PM »
Paul,

While your scratching your Michigan Digest itch how about telling me how Golfweek put a Michigan Nugent course at 30th best Modern.
Logged

Jfaspen

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2007, 09:48:41 PM »
There is no way that Indianwood old is #25 in the state..  I agree that it is at least top 10 if not better.

I've played R+S Sharf numerous times and while it has some interesting holes, it really just reminds me of Smith's Treetops effort.

Logged

John Kavanaugh

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2007, 09:50:15 PM »
How can we be discussing state rankings with the Masters just a pillow away?
Logged

Jfaspen

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2007, 09:51:13 PM »
Because Lost doesn't start for 10 minutes ;)
Logged

Mike Boehm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2007, 09:58:13 PM »
I couldn't believe that The Bear cracked the Top 25 in the state.  I consider University of Michigan Golf Course, which fell of the list, vastly superior to The Bear.

Mike
Logged

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2007, 10:12:51 PM »
Paul,
I assume you have done all the SW courses? Dunes, Lost Dunes, PofW?
You should get up and see Forest Dunes.
Logged
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 10:27:52 PM »
Paul, I also have been wondering about some of the rankings.  I can understand Kinglsey because some guys hate it.  I don't agree with them but so be it.

Point O' Woods is a mystery.  I have to find out the scoop.
Logged
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Andy Troeger

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 10:40:20 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on April 04, 2007, 10:27:52 PM
Paul, I also have been wondering about some of the rankings.  I can understand Kinglsey because some guys hate it.  I don't agree with them but so be it.

Point O' Woods is a mystery.  I have to find out the scoop.

Agreed. I also figured there would be a thread on the MI list eventually, too many surprises I think for it to be avoided.
Logged

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 11:11:53 PM »
barney

The Dunes Club is deserving of its ranking.  In fact, I would place it higher on my personal list than #30 on the Modern list.

What is your issue with it?  Or do you just not like Nugent's work?


Ralph

I have already seen those you mentioned, but not Forest Dunes yet.



Jeff

I think Smith's Treetops is many notches above Sharf.  It's not even a contest.

 ;)
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2007, 11:19:42 PM »
Beverly at 13 in Illinois is as criminal as it gets.
Logged
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2007, 11:33:45 PM »
> Beverly at 13 in Illinois is as criminal as it gets.

Adam

You are correct, sir!

I'm still reeling over the Michigan list, I haven't been able to spend any time on the rest of it.  But I know there are quite a few head-scratchers on the Illinois list as well......  This being one of them.

Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2007, 11:43:18 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on April 04, 2007, 10:27:52 PM
 I can understand Kinglsey because some guys hate it.  I don't agree with them but so be it.


dislike?  perhaps...but HATE Kingsley???  that I cannot understand

C Downs/Kingsley is one of the great pairs of courses there is
Logged
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Brian Cenci

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 07:51:26 AM »
Quote from: Paul Thomas on April 04, 2007, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on April 04, 2007, 10:27:52 PM
 I can understand Kinglsey because some guys hate it.  I don't agree with them but so be it.


dislike?  perhaps...but HATE Kingsley???  that I cannot understand

C Downs/Kingsley is one of the great pairs of courses there is


Kingsley does envoke strong emotions from most people.  While I consider it in the top 5 in the state, others would say it wouldn't be in the top 15 in the state.  A friend of mine, who's a member at Oakland Hills, actually hated the course.  Felt it was too "gimicky" with some of the shots you were forced to hit.  Another friend of mine, who frequently posts on this site, loves the course but was turned off by its overall quality by the greens and some of the weird quirks in them.  But, it's a great course any other way you look at it.

-Brian
Logged

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2007, 12:07:21 PM »
Quote from: Brian Cenci on April 05, 2007, 07:51:26 AM
Quote from: Paul Thomas on April 04, 2007, 11:43:18 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on April 04, 2007, 10:27:52 PM
 I can understand Kinglsey because some guys hate it.  I don't agree with them but so be it.


dislike?  perhaps...but HATE Kingsley???  that I cannot understand

C Downs/Kingsley is one of the great pairs of courses there is


Kingsley does envoke strong emotions from most people.  While I consider it in the top 5 in the state, others would say it wouldn't be in the top 15 in the state.  A friend of mine, who's a member at Oakland Hills, actually hated the course.  Felt it was too "gimicky" with some of the shots you were forced to hit.  Another friend of mine, who frequently posts on this site, loves the course but was turned off by its overall quality by the greens and some of the weird quirks in them.  But, it's a great course any other way you look at it.

-Brian

The guys with I have spoken that don't like it, dislike the "unfairness" of soem of the bounces and point to 9 as an example.  People are so caught up with score that if a course does not let them shoot their 75 or whatever there is something wrong with the course.  

Personally, I think Kingsley is miracle.

Paul Richards, do the GW rankings cause any head scratching?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 12:10:17 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Logged
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2007, 01:47:18 PM »
Paul,
  I think you meant to say Kingsley was 10 places too low. Out of curiosity, which courses do you feel are superior to Kingsley in Michigan?

I have played a sampling of courses in Michigan, but I have not seen 6-7 that are better than Kingsley for my tastes.
Logged
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2007, 06:32:45 PM »
ed

whichever way is the right way to say it - but Kingsley is in the top 5 or 6 - not #16

i like Crystal Downs, Oakland Hills South, Indianwood Old, the Dunes Club, Arcadia Bluffs and Point O'Woods all much better.  

there may be a few that are on par with Kingsley as well, but it's  7 or 8 to me
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 06:34:45 PM by Paul Richards »
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Andy Troeger

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2007, 06:33:52 PM »
Quote from: ed_getka on April 05, 2007, 01:47:18 PM
Paul,
  I think you meant to say Kingsley was 10 places too low. Out of curiosity, which courses do you feel are superior to Kingsley in Michigan?

I have played a sampling of courses in Michigan, but I have not seen 6-7 that are better than Kingsley for my tastes.

Ed,
I've been fortunate to see quite a few courses in the current top ten, and Crystal and Kingsley rate 1-2 for me. Point O'Woods, Tullymore, Arcadia Bluffs, Lost Dunes, and the Dunes Club follow closely in the next tier though. Pilgrim's Run, Wuskowhan Players Club, and Angels Crossing deserve mention too.
Logged

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2007, 06:42:37 PM »
Paul

Have you seen Belvedere?
Logged
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2007, 08:39:30 PM »
Ralph

Not yet.


Where is it near?
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2007, 09:06:53 PM »
Paul
Belvedere (about an hour north of Traverse) and Forest Dunes (just south of Gaylord) are about an hour apart.
You could probably get both in a day.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 09:07:45 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
Logged
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2007, 10:14:23 PM »
Jaka,

Still waiting for a response.  What's your beef with The Dunes Club?

Ken
Logged

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2007, 10:26:30 PM »
Paul and Andy,
   Thanks for the responses. As I mentioned I haven't played a lot of courses in Michigan but I would go Crystal Downs, Kingsley Club, Angels Crossing, Greywalls, Lost Dunes, High Point.
Logged
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2007, 11:11:56 PM »
Quote from: Ken Fry on April 05, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
Jaka,

Still waiting for a response.  What's your beef with The Dunes Club?

Ken

Never played The Dunes but I think it is a head scratcher why a course so old debuts so high.  I would hate to speculate why.
Logged

Andy Troeger

Re:Michigan - the head-scratching begins...
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2007, 11:25:19 PM »
John,
I thought someone said that GW only started allowing 9-hole courses onto the list this year and that Dunes Club had been getting good enough ratings previously to make it...just wasn't considered. Maybe someone else could confirm/deny?

Ed and Paul,
Interesting we have a lot of the same courses in a somewhat different (in a random fashion at that) order :)  No wonder the ratings are hard to figure sometimes!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 11:27:00 PM by Andy Troeger »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back