Aerial of the Day #197 (and 198) - 13 Sep 2002

[Scott_Burroughs]

Friday the 13th.

Today I will only be here for less than an hour as I will be on
the golf course today (finally).  There will be two
guest "hosts", one for each course, and they will give each
away in due time.  One will not be here the entire time
(meetings and time difference), but bear with him.

The first one today has lots of clues available, but which ones
to use that aren't obvious?  

I'll try this one.  Anyone see the recent Robin Williams
comedy bit on the invention of golf by the Scots?  He
mentions this course (unintentionally), describing the
equipment needed for the game.



The stumper today was recently renovated, by whom I
forget, but I'm sure that will be revealed later.

This one has a more famous course not terribly far from it.

[Scott_Burroughs]

For #1, driving here from Memphis last minute can be
helpful for your career.


For #2, was this course and inspiration for Henry
Deutschendorf, Jr.?



See you Monday!

[THuckaby2]

EXCELLENT clues.  I got #1 though I must admit
I did not recognize it from the air.  

Re #2, I know WHO you're talking about...
just can't place the course... yet.... thank
god I'm a city boy.

TH

[SPDB1]

On #1, does the house at the top of the pic have its
own personal par 3?

[Chris_Clouser]

Yes, that is a personal par 3.  That house is owned by the
local NFL franchise owner.  Complete with it's own helipad
that has recently caused quite a controversy.  Do you think
he might move that hole to LA also?

[WilliamWang]

does anyone at #1 have trouble spelling tubers?

[THuckaby2]

As a former die-hard fan of the Los Angeles
Rams, it find it particularly ironic that L.A.
may get the team from this area, given one of
its owners from its previous home traded
franchises with the Rams way back when
and that's how the late great Carroll Rosenbloom
came to own the LA Rams... What a circle
of NFL irony... Rams were in Cleveland, moved to
L.A. just as the Browns rose to prominence....
Many years later, Baltimore's team moved to this city...
Rams leave LA...
Browns move to Baltimore...now this city's team
moves to LA?

Cleveland-Baltimore-LA-this city seem to be caught
up in the world's longest running football circle-jerk.

TH

[WilliamWang]

seeing as we are all in NFL mode, #1's NFL team meets #2's NFL team this season.

i wonder if #2 is greasy enough to squeak past #1?

[WilliamWang]

the city of #2 is known for its oysters (non-marine variety).

[RJ_Daley]

Is the following true of #2?

Opened: 1903
Architect: J. Foulis, W. Flynn, H. Coulis, B. Diddle, Palmer/Seay, B. Coore

That last bit of remodeled by Palmer/Seay followed by BillCoore is an interesting progression...

[Dan Grossman]

A quick mapquest check leads me to
believe that you are 100% correct, RJ.

On #1, its hard to see the railroad ties from
the aerial view.  

[wsmorrison]

#2 looked awfully familiar, I think RJ's clues confirmed it for me. If this course was redesigned  (in 1922) according to Flynn's very beautiful drawings, it would have overshadowed its much more famous neighbor.  It would be an outstanding test of golf today, with little change (lengthening) necessary.  I was told that the membership did not adopt the entire plan as it would've been too hard!  There are approximately 9 holes that are routed according to Flynn with various degrees of trueness to the hole designs.  Presently, there is a growing move afoot (CBonniwell, et al) to go back to the original plans as much as possible.  This would be awesome!  There are so many clear Pine Valley influences on the drawings; segmented fairways, island greens in sand, undulating sand bunkers (as existed originally at PV), etc.  Very cool stuff.  Dan Wexler has been studying the drawings and is fascinated.  Can't wait to get his new book!
Regards,
Wayne

[WilliamWang]

wayne - what's the subject and title of wexler's new book?

[Doug Wright]

I get high just thinking about #2...

Re #2, might this club be the one SI's Rick Reilly drew from to create the private "Mayflower Country Club" (the foil to Ponky) in his book "Missing Links"?

All The Best,  

[wsmorrison]

William,

I'm not sure of the title, but in essence it is a second volume of his outstanding "Missing Links" book.  He conducts thorough research, creates artistic maps (he does them himself) and focuses on interesting NLE courses or dramatically changed ones.  He has been an invaluable help to Tom Paul and I on our Flynn book project.

[WilliamWang]

thanks, wayne.  i'll keep my eye out for it and
for your book as well.


#1 - will dottie pepper be teeing it up here in the future?

[wsmorrison]

William, our book on the golf courses of William Flynn will be awhile, we are fortunate to have a comprehensive set of original drawings to utilize.  We were hoping to finish by the 2004 Shinnecock Open, but its not gonna happen.  Tom and I are taking our time and want to get everything right; facts accurately presented and suppositions carefully stated as such with proper research and analysis to back everything up.
Thanks for your interest.

Dan's book, while essentially complete may be delayed a bit by changes at the publishing house (SBP).  Let's hope the delay is not too long.

[Doug Wright]

Howdy folks. Scott asked me to play guest host for AOTD #2
since he's personally inspecting some famous Ross course
in the Carolina sand hills right now...

AOTD #2 is Denver CC, Denver, Colorado, My Home Course.
I was hoping Scott wouldn't crop the picture because I live just north of the club. As Dick Daley indicated, Denver CC's original designer was James Foulis in 1903, making it one of the oldest courses west of the Mississippi. Since then, it's seen more than its share of architects and others who've made their mark. Here's the list, and the years they
were involved with the course:

James Foulis (1903)
Donald Ross (1914-1922)
William Flynn (1923-1924)
Harry Collis (1925)
William Diddell (1957-1959)
J. Press Maxwell (1963-1965)
Ed Seay (1975-1978)
Bill Coore (1985-present)

A club member, Fred McCartney, did major golf architectural work on the course from 1925 to 1940. In fact, the wildest green on the course (#4), is credited to McCartney. It's positively Maxwell-esque, much more pronounced than the Press Maxwell greens. Several minor modifications were also made at the suggestion of A.W. Tillinghast in 1936, and two of the club's professionals, William Wilson and John Cochran, became golf course architects and also had some influence on the course's design.

For all of the hands on the course, it seems to tie together well. Though at 6900 yards the course is too short by today's standards to host major events, it's a really good routing that makes very good use of Cherry Creek on several holes and a hill that runs along the south edge of the property and is one of those courses one can play every day and not get tired of. The aerial is a bit dated, because a green relocated, redesigned and rebuilt in 2001 by Bill Coore (the par 3 #7) isn't reflected on the aerial.

Wayne Morrison mentions the fascinating Flynn drawings from 1922 that, alas, were not fully adopted by the club.    I've not seen them, but I have been in touch with the club's golf course historian Chuck Bonniwell and hope to see them soon and report back here.

Other clues:

--More famous course not far from it= Cherry Hills CC.
--Henry Deutschendorf, Jr.= John Denver's real name.
--William Wang's "i wonder if #2 is greasy enough to squeak past #1" NFL reference=Brian Griese, Denver Broncos QB
--"the city of #2 is known for its oysters (non-marine variety)"=Rocky Mountain Oysters (I assume you all know what they are...).
--my "high' clue is of course a reference to Rocky Mountain High, and SI's Rick Reilly is a member of Denver CC (see Ponky thread)

Thanks, Scott, for this AOTD and letting me be a "host of the the day" too..

All The Best,  

[THuckaby2]

DAMN!  One of my great college chums
used to be a member here... VERY cool to
see the infamous "DCC" from the air!

I got the John Denver clue but never
thought of the direct connection...
duhhh.....

TH

[WilliamWang]

as guest host of #1 i'm here to lift the covers off of...

crooked stick golf club in carmel, indiana
designed by pete and alice dye in 1964

scott's clues were from the robin williams HBO special where
he rants about the origins of golf and a "fu****ed up
scotsman's invention the game using a "stick"

clue #2 referred to john daly's last minute entry into the
PGA championship which he won in 1991 at crooked stick.

other clues relate to jim irsay, the colts, potatoe (sic) and
dan quayle (a member), railroad ties, solheim cup and dottie
pepper (2005 solheim venue).

thanks scott for the opportunity to "guest host",
it's been real.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Speaking of the Robin Williams golf routine,
if anyone wants it by e-mail, give me a shout.
Warning: it is 1.8MB, so dial-ups be prepared.

My email is : kevinDELETETHIS@rosewoodcap.com

Remove the "DELETETHIS"

[WilliamWang]

"oh you do this one time?"

"f**k no!  eighteen f**king times!"

[Doug Wright]

Tom IV,

Sorry we stumped you...

BTW, what's so "infamous" about DCC?

All The Best,

[THuckaby2]

That's ok Doug - I get stumped by more
of these than I get!  

And DCC is "infamous" only among certain
1985 graduates of Santa Clara
University.  Our friend had so much logo
stuff from there, talked about it so much,
loved it so much, we all felt like we knew it
and/or were sick of it, even though none
of us have seen it in person!  My buddy
caddied in a long-ago Curtis Cup held there
and his picture is in a USGA coffee-table
book showing him as such... this just added
to the infamy.

TH

[Doug Wright]

TH,

Thanks--now I see why he's a "former member"
 

All The Best,