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Tom Huckaby

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2007, 03:56:44 PM »
Mike - I knew you were kidding - it's all in good fun between you and me - but my line was too good to pass up.

And GOOD MAN, Kyle!

I loved that episode....

With sails unfurled,

TH
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Kyle Harris

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2007, 03:58:31 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on March 30, 2007, 03:56:44 PM
Mike - I knew you were kidding - it's all in good fun between you and me - but my line was too good to pass up.

And GOOD MAN, Kyle!

I loved that episode....

With sails unfurled,

TH

Sukat, his eyes uncovered.
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2007, 04:01:26 PM »
Huck, I am proud that I liked the Consession enough to think it belonged in the discusssion with Ballyneal and Sebonack. However on the state rankings, it does appear the GD list is about what its initials indicate ones reaction to it would be with the word idiot following the GD.
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2007, 04:06:27 PM »
Louisiana # 3 is maybe late top 10. 4 and 9 do not belong on any list.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2007, 04:14:07 PM »
Quote from: MPCirba on March 30, 2007, 03:46:58 PM
My heavens, John...

How is this any different than a movie critic offering their honest negative assessment of the latest $70 million blockbuster that fails to meet artistic and entertainment standards?



Congrats....It is no different at all.  You find yourself in fine company my friend.
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Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2007, 04:43:43 PM »
Quote from: A.G._Crockett on March 30, 2007, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: John Shimp on March 30, 2007, 02:04:34 PM
The state of NC is an interesting view into how GD sees the world.  Of the 25 golf courses 10 are new Tom Fazio designs (counting Pinehurst No. 4) and 11 if his redo of Quail Hollow were to be counted which is a stretch.  

Only 4 Ross works are on the list in a state that has 40 or so of his designs; #2 is ranked first, Pine Needles is ranked 8th, MidPines 23rd, and Charlotte CC 24th.  

Charlotte has always been a top 5 or 6 course on this and nearly all rankings.  We'll see how it ranks after Ron Prichard's work is done.  

Happy to see Grandfather at #3 and Old Town at #7 -- well deserved for those 2.

For instance, for Treyburn to be ranked and Hope Valley not?  I would venture to say that not one Durham area golfer in 100 that has played both would prefer Treyburn.

Incomprehensible...

(And I won't even get into the concept that there are at least 25 courses in NC better than the Road! >:(

Usually I don't get too caught up in the rankings game, but it is an absolute joke that Tobacco Road is not in NC's top-25. I can say this as I have played most on the list. Come on! Can someone honestly say they think Tiger's Eye or Treyburn is more deserving of a nod over Tobacco Road. Wow!
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I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Phil_the_Author

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2007, 04:47:39 PM »
Mike, I don't understand your problem with those three courses, there certainly isn't any distinct pattern to them. Judst look at how differently the fairways are mowed!  ;D
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2007, 04:47:42 PM »
I can honestly say that Tobacco Road is the worst engineered course I have ever seen from a design standpoint.  It reminds me of the leaning tower of Pisa.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 04:48:44 PM by John Kavanaugh »
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2007, 05:32:17 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 30, 2007, 04:47:42 PM
I can honestly say that Tobacco Road is the worst engineered course I have ever seen from a design standpoint.  It reminds me of the leaning tower of Pisa.

John - Great (or sick) minds think alike.  Below is an exact quote of a post I made yesterday in the Golf Digest Top 100 discussion.

"I've got to say that I don't think Tobacco Road belongs in the same breath as any of the others that I am familiar with on that list.  I can see the fascination with it but for me TR simply does not work well as a golf course.  It has too many holes or shots that do not work and on top of that I think its a very poorly engineered golf course. I realize a lot of people here have put it into cult status for some reason and I like quirk more then most even on GCA but not Tobacco Road. To mention it in the same universe as Engineers, Eastward Ho, Yale, Myopia, Kingsley Club and a TON of others is heresy."

Can I come work on the chain gang building roads with you?  :)
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2007, 05:32:19 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 30, 2007, 04:47:42 PM
I can honestly say that Tobacco Road is the worst engineered course I have ever seen from a design standpoint.  It reminds me of the leaning tower of Pisa.

Well John, please explain your expertise in engineering that qualifies you to make this statement and what does it mean?

Cary
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2007, 05:38:27 PM »
Cary

For one thing it has cart paths that in places you need an elevator or escalator to get to the fairway if your ball should happen to find that area.  For some and certainly in wet conditions for more then a few it is darn dangerous.  It has some pits that require crampons and climbing rope to descend and get back up.  There are people who simply could not negotiate them.  There are others that maybe John can mention but I found the course freekish.
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Allan Long

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2007, 05:55:59 PM »
I am not saying that Tobacco Road belongs in the same class with the Pine Valleys and Cypress Points of the World, merely that it puts some of the courses on the NC list to shame--engineering shortcomings or not.
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I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
--C.B. Macdonald

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2007, 06:06:16 PM »
Quote from: Allan_Long on March 30, 2007, 05:55:59 PM
I am not saying that Tobacco Road belongs in the same class with the Pine Valleys and Cypress Points of the World, merely that it puts some of the courses on the NC list to shame--engineering shortcomings or not.

Allan - I'm not disagreeing with you.  Cary in the other thread put TR in the same breath as those I mentioned as well as a host of others including Friars Head.
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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2007, 06:13:58 PM »
I would put Tobacco Road in the same class as Yale. In fact, given 10 rounds between the two I would go 5 and 5. And I say this as someone who considers Yale one of the top 5 courses I have played.
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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2007, 06:20:04 PM »
Has anyone on this site played the Quarry at La Quinta and still believe it ranks ahead of Riviera, Spyglass Hill and Pasatiempo? Granted I have not played the course, but I have seen pictures and a video tour from the old Links Magazine TV show, and I was not overly impressed. Is it's design that good? I have not heard anyone rave about this course, except that it is perfectly manicured and the owner will give away a membership to anyone who can find a weed out of place.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2007, 06:20:27 PM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on March 30, 2007, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 30, 2007, 04:47:42 PM
I can honestly say that Tobacco Road is the worst engineered course I have ever seen from a design standpoint.  It reminds me of the leaning tower of Pisa.

Well John, please explain your expertise in engineering that qualifies you to make this statement and what does it mean?

Cary

I have been and remain a registered Professional Engineer in the State of Illinois for over 19 years now.  TR and TLToP are both examples of works of art as famous for their engineering failures as their beauty.  I would recommend anyone to visit either at any time.
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2007, 06:21:21 PM »
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on March 30, 2007, 06:13:58 PM
I would put Tobacco Road in the same class as Yale. In fact, given 10 rounds between the two I would go 5 and 5. And I say this as someone who considers Yale one of the top 5 courses I have played.

Then we disagree big time.  So be it.

I'd play all 10 at Yale
All 10 at Friars Head
All 10 at Eastward Ho
All 10 at Engineers

« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 06:23:40 PM by GJChilds »
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redanman

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2007, 07:41:01 PM »
Chiming in the redanman says that Tobacco Road is a great fun place to play but is an outlier on the list.

That ought to settle it!

LOL at myself.
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2007, 07:47:04 PM »
Quote from: W.Vostinak on March 30, 2007, 07:41:01 PM
Chiming in the redanman says that Tobacco Road is a great fun place to play but is an outlier on the list.

That ought to settle it!

LOL at myself.

Bill - That does about settle it though I'd have it slightly (but not much) lower.  The cult status that TR gets around here baffles me  ???
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2007, 07:55:20 PM »
I finally learned the reason that Royal New Kent is the only course I have ever played that I would assign"piece of art" status to. It is so cool, but so awkward, inconvenient, wierd to play that it might as well just be looked at. I love the place, but I feel different about it than any other course I have ever played in this regard.


and by the way, it's the only Mike Strantz course I've played...
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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2007, 08:00:59 PM »
Labeling it "cult status" implies a blind, brainwashed, herd mentality. That's hardly fair and does a disservace to the talents of Mike Strantz. Had I never heard a word about TR before I played it last week I still would have thought it was one of the most creative, fun, and unique courses I had ever seen.
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Doug Ralston

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2007, 08:14:30 PM »
Quirk, outlier, wierd ........ etc. Who gives a crap?

Golf is golf. You hit the little ball as few times as you can while navigating the terrain offered and getting into the holes provided. If that process is more pleasing to you on some courses than others, then you should feel free to say "I like that one better". There IS NO STANDARD for how a golf course SHOULD BE. Let us hope none is EVER established! Who gets to decide? Let architects put forth their offerings and those who play them decide.

Why this need for indoctrination of 'worthy' and 'unworthy' shaping?

If Tobacco Road is better to you, you should feel to rate it that way. How simple is this?

Doug
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W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2007, 08:51:26 PM »
Speaking of Tobacco Road....who would design a golf hole that 100 yards of fairway drains through the first green like #1 at TR.  That is poor design and or engineering.  
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Geoffrey Childs

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2007, 08:55:18 PM »
Doug

Why are you getting so bent out of shape about a few reviews that disagree with the ones who put TR within the elite upper echelon of great golf courses?  No post that I've read has said anyone should not keep their own opinions. Its that kind of blind faith that leads me to the cult status statements about TR.  Enjoy it.  It has several thrilling shots which I do think makes for fun golf but I also noticed its flaws both in playability and the way it was built.
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Jason Blasberg

Re:Golf Digest State rankings out
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2007, 09:09:04 PM »
Geoff:

Tobacco Road is one of the few courses that we differ greatly on . . . while I can't say I know of the engineering failures it woud stink to play it cart path only, that's for sure.

The only short coming TR has is its want of Grace.  There's nothing soothing about TR and I think the testosterone overload is what turns people off.  

Having played it only once I relish the next opportunity.

Jason
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