Hidden Creek, Different Everyday

[brad_miller]

Hit lots of fairways, hit lots of greens,  think you might go low, NOT! This wonderful new C&C golf course just outside of Atlantic City has many suble features that may take a few plays to truely begin to understand. Fairways with plenty of width but clearly benificial sides and angles to play depending on the pin positions on these large natural landform greens (extensions of fairway) . Hidden Creek's greens all with openings in front allow for multiple options from the fairway, but once on the green the fun truely begins. Interesting internal contours, sections that fall away from the line of play and many "greens within a green," and generous size  make for lots of fun and a golf course that will play "different every day." Different pin postions on this course can and will present almost a different hole each and every day. One can just see the potential 3 putts out there and see how a good score could slowly bleed away. Somewhat of easy bogy, earned par, golf is supposed to be fun isn't it??

IMHO, this concept of " different everyday" is maybe the most important feature of  a great golf course!  Sites with wind, sandy soil and interesting natural ground features make for some great golf, Hidden Creek gets a check all boxes. Congrads, to Roger Hansen for letting C&C and "the boys" work their magic  and continue to challenge the eyes and matter between the ears with their work.

[Brian Phillips]

Brad,

Was the course looking green or has the Super been allowed to keep it slightly brown.

You say that the wide fairways brought in a certain strategy on each hole depending on which side you hit.  Do you think if less water and less maintenance was used on most courses architects could go back to designing wide fairways?

Were the bunkers still looking rough and rugged?

What did you think of the green complexes?  When I was there it was one of the things I had noticed.  Coore really had put work in on the greens, so much so that the greens were very, very cleverly shaped. Almost Maxwell style with different plateus on the greens that were not obvious from the fairway.


Brian.

[TEPaul]

Brad:

Glad to hear you say that and the way you did. What you said and the way you look at that course is basically the way Coore and Crenshaw were hoping golfers would look at it--but they are definitely realistic enough to accept that certain golfers won't look at it that way or understand the course for what it is.

Wide fairways are good, in my opinion, but only IF combined with other architectural features, factors and ramifications! If they don't have those other things basically width (of fairways) is not always a good thing!

There's something about that course that will make most any golfer pay if he doesn't pay attention to its architecture, but that something is very subtle (intentionally)--it's anything but obvious or "roadmapping" like so many other modern courses.

As such it's going to be more misunderstood by some than most all other modern courses! At least one new member doesn't really like the course concluding that there must be something "unfair" about the greens although he's apparently not sure what that is. He can't seem to understand why he 3 putts so much and has apparently blamed it on the green complexes and then on the whole course generally!

[brad_miller]

Brian,
The course was somewhat green, but it has only been open since May, did speak with Roger Hansen, Jeff Riggs (supt) and Ian Dalzell (head Pro) and they have every intention of letting the course get somewhat brown as the course matures. In fact Ian knows links golf and firm conditions better than most having grown up playing Portsturart and Royal Portrush James Duncan, the C&C project manager has also spent considerable time with Jeff and Ian talking about the architectural intent and how HC should play.

Less water, firmer fairways IMO reduce the effective width of fairways making finding the ideal location from which to attack more difficult. Sure some balls get positive forward roll when well struck, but poorly angled or struck balls get penalized far more.

The bunkers look like "natural unfinished"   work of the C&C team, wonderfully natural and true hazards much like the two other GREAT C&C courses I have been lucky enough to play more than a few times.

As to the greens, just plain old wonderful, closer to FH than Sand Hills. Don't know the exact sizes but I suspect the largest ones of these 3 courses. Internal contour and pitch somewhat less than the C&C Long Island project, but this fits the land as best I could see. If the greens at HC were any more contoured 3 putts could become the rule. Do I see Maxwell in these greens, yes and no, some of the internal movement does remind me of Prairie Dunes but the sheer size of the HC greens is much different. The greens at PD are truely unique. As I stated in the starting post, playing this and other somewhat suble courses only once and then commenting and/or ranking isn't fair to the nature of the architecture, HC will grow on you each and every time you play it, many other courses are most enjoyable when played their first or second times, where do you want to play 25 plus rounds a year?

[Steve Lapper]

This new C & C course is an absolute diamond in the rough. I always hesitate to even rate or judge any course on my first play or in this case, the course's first year. Yet, just like Friar's Head, these 18 holes are superb. With a little wind, Brad Miller and I tackled this gem and came away mighty impressed.
 The routing is solid, its walkability just might be the best in all of New Jersey (PV included). This also reveals a negative, but i'll get to that later. The bunkering, per Jeff and the C & C crew, look as if its been there forever. The greens are huge with multiple, subtle and obvious, rolls and potential pin sites. To this point, I found them a bit too large for personal tastes. Allowing for little elevation change, it is obvious that the greens offer up a reliable defense to the all too common aerial game. Long irons are generally hitting the greens (and they readily received them) but results often include 2 zip code distance putts. Ian and Jeff Riggs both alluded to the ability of those surfaces to turn icy fast with relative little weather vulnerability. For a brand new course, high green speeds reveal just how well they were constructed. Many of these putting monsters were surrounded by wide mown chipping aprons that left lots of creativity in the hands of the player.
Over time, I suspect that several of these aprons (mostly to the side of the greens) give way to encroaching bunkers or the native wild brush and fescue that grow heartily.
  The hole memorability is significantly stronger on the front side led by the wonderful, and potentially viscious par 3 fourth. At 230+ and playing into the prevalent winds, C & C saw fit to harass the golfer with a wild green that takes shots and then takes no prisoners (Big hump and bowl). The visual of a large yawning bunker in the front only adds to the tightening of one's sphincter.
  The one shotters are all interesting and a quasi imitation of SH's 17 becomes HC's #11. Anyone who is lucky enough to hit and hold the green should absolutley rely on someone's (caddie/member) local knowledge to read the putt...as no everyday hitter will likely figure it out.
  Many of the longer four pars are quite solid, if slightly unspectactular or easily discernable from each other. The distance and the angles are all well thought out and eminentl fair but penal if the fairway is missed. The shorter two shotter's are a bit more visually interesting. The fives are all wonderful and strategically reachable depending on the wind and size of the testicles.
  Really, the entire course is just fantastic given that it is year one and is not nearly firmed up and running fast as it will eventually become, at least temporarily sometime. Roger, Ian and Jeff know exactly what they've got and what it might look like with a little time and cooperating climate.  I worry whether the membership really understands that. The local skinny is that most all the members take carts, the caddy program is stunted by lack of use and some restrictions. IMHO, this is considerable loss. Never have I seen a modern course easier to walk and enjoy. Even with my 11 knee surgeries, I'd gladly take a bag and walk all day there.
  Finally, I'll stick my two cents in again and suggest that National memberships be offered. I would love to find a way to join a NJ year-round facility of this caliber.
 

PS...Anyone looking for Brad Miller $$$ can see me and we'll share it.

Slapper

[Steve Lapper]

One other thing.....

I would absolutlely put this in (at or near the top in the modern category) my list of places to play everyday. Like Brad, I found this "different everyday" character to be of such high quality that it arrives into the list with little dispute.


IMHO, it is so tough be an everyday course that varies enough to show the golfer a different look so many times. HC accomplishes near 75% of that right now and I can only think the remaining 25% will come with a little time (2-3yrs).  The others on my list...just in the Northeast... Somerset Hills, NGLA, GCGC, the Country Club, Taconic, and the Creek Club. These all are simply fun, architectually sound, not overwhelmingly difficult tracks that change rather dramatically with weather, conditions, pin placements, etc...

I welcome any other ideas for inclusion.

[Steve Lapper]

One other thing.....

I would absolutlely put this in (at or near the top in the modern category) my list of places to play everyday. Like Brad, I found this "different everyday" character to be of such high quality that it arrives into the list with little dispute.


IMHO, it is so tough be an everyday course that varies enough to show the golfer a different look so many times. HC accomplishes near 75% of that right now and I can only think the remaining 25% will come with a little time (2-3yrs).  The others on my list...just in the Northeast... Somerset Hills, NGLA, GCGC, the Country Club, Taconic, and the Creek Club. These all are simply fun, architectually sound, not overwhelmingly difficult tracks that change rather dramatically with weather, conditions, pin placements, etc...

I welcome any other ideas for inclusion.