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John Kavanaugh

The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« on: March 09, 2007, 12:16:13 PM »
Erin Hills at $150 and We-Ko-Pa at $195 made me quandry about what other courses are out there that are not in the very liberal Golfweek Top 100's.  I'm sure Vegas must lead the list with many over $200.  Any others?
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Andy Troeger

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 12:19:56 PM »
John,
There's got to be hundreds with triple digit fees that aren't top 100 courses. There might be hundreds in Vegas, Arizona, California, and Florida alone!
 
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rjsimper

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 12:22:34 PM »
Trump National Ocean Trails at $195 weekday/$300 weekend certainly qualifies...though it did make the Golfweek best-in-state list for CA.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 12:37:36 PM »
Quote from: W.Vostinak on March 09, 2007, 12:30:47 PM
Wynn is $500

Game, set, match?



I went to the Wynn clubhouse and would consider it a better deal than Trump National Ocean.  I thought about Wynn while in Vegas and forgot that TNO was even within reach when I was in LA.  But thanks....Wynn is right up there as a contender.

I would play Wynn for free...I would not TNO.  This is partly based on the fact that I find the gambling in LA to be more interesting than in Vegas...You better be damn good to get me out to play in LA.
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JESII

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 01:22:43 PM »
Is PGA National (Champ) in the top 100? I think their fee will be close to or greater than $300.
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JESII

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 01:24:52 PM »
Just checked...make it $281 including cart.
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Jim Franklin

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 01:49:12 PM »
Sea Island is off the charts when you consider you have to stay and play. The Greenbrier ain't cheap either. When you factor all expenses, Wynn probably comes out on top, but Sea Island and The Greenbrier are close.
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Mr Hurricane

John Foley

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 01:54:18 PM »
Only 2 others I could think of are

Cascta $500
Spansish Bay $250
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Brad Klein

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 02:00:49 PM »
We've got a lot of these covered:

no. 8, Shadow Creek
no. 72, Seaside
no. 90, Cascata
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wsmorrison

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 02:40:53 PM »
John,

Why don't you promote this index:

The course GW rating times (the average public green fee divided by the course green fee).  CGWR x APGF/CGF   Then you'd be on to something.  Exactly what, I'm not sure  ;)
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Jim Franklin

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 02:42:12 PM »
But Plantation (Sea Island ) is not on the list so that is why I included Sea Island in my assessment.
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Mr Hurricane

Andy Troeger

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 02:50:46 PM »
Reynolds Plantation has to be up there in cost as well from what I remember.

Grayhawk courses are among the most expensive publics in AZ as are the two at Troon North. There are many others that aren't cheap either.

Bay Hill and Doral probably lead the way in Florida.
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Andy Troeger

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 02:53:22 PM »
Plus a lot of 2nd-3rd-4th courses at expensive resorts tend to be expensive as well (but not top 100 designs in their own right)...

The Irish Cse at Whistling Straits comes to mind as another one of those along with Jim's Sea Island example.
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Mike Hoak

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 03:54:41 PM »
The Green Monkey at the Sandy Lane Resort in Barbados is $365 and you have to drop at least $2,000/night on accomodations in the high season (low season gets you the bargain basement rate of $1,000).  This is the same resort where Tiger got hitched.
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Tim Leahy

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2007, 04:06:08 PM »
the least bang for your buck in the nation has to be the Halfmoon Bay courses here in the bay area-135 weekday and 155 weekend, 165/180 if you book more than 14 days in advance. I wouldn't pay half that for either.
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Tim Leahy

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2007, 07:54:39 PM »
Edgewood Tahoe is another loser at $220.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Jesse Jones

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2007, 08:11:47 PM »
How about the Golden Horseshoe.
Its one of my favorites.
But its been off the list for awhile.
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 08:23:58 PM »
I haven't checked in some time, but last I looked Pelican Hll was like $245.00 on the weekend. With it's ongoing "restoration" ;) I expect it to exceed Trumps $300.00 green fee.

The sad thing about Trump is Mike Van dergoes, the director of golf, is a really class act. He's been there since the club opened as Ocean Trials when it was owned by the original owners, the Zuckermans. He's been through hell and back there and still manages to run the place  as top notch as you can get.

I would say given the situation, he is the one shining star at TNLA, and if The Donald ever fired him, I hope the 18th sinks again into the Pacific carrying Donald with it!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 08:24:17 PM by Tommy Naccarato »
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Mike Hendren

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 09:39:03 PM »
While not in the league with others mentioned, I was surprised to pay $130 for a 3:00 p.m. round last year at the RTJ Trail's Ross Bridge course in Birmingham.  

Apparently they are marketing this as a resort with fancy hotel and spa on site, but the course is a notch below others on the trail and rightly did not crack the Bama list in Golfweek.  Looks like business conference city.

Paging Hillbilly rookie Goodman.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 09:40:04 PM by Michael_Hendren »
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rjsimper

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2007, 10:23:36 PM »
Isnt the RTJ Trail mantra inclusive of something to the extent of "affordable" or "value"?
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Jim Nugent

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2007, 11:42:12 PM »
Wayne, here's a takeoff on the index you suggested.  

Start with the course rating.  Divide that by the greens fee.  Multiply by one hundred (to make the numbers easier to read).  The higher the result, the better the value.

For example, Pebble is rated 9.07.  Greens fees are, what, $450?
100 x 9.07 = 907.  907 divided by 450 = 2.02.

Compare that with Bethpage Black.  Rating is 8.02, and resident greens fees are $41.  8.02 x 100 = 802.  802 divided by 41 = 19.56.  Non-resident greens fees are double, so the value index is 9.78 for non-residents.

So according to this index, BPB is nearly ten times the value of PB for residents, and nearly five times greater for non-residents.

One flaw here is that the ratings are not really quantitative.  i.e. we can't say a course rated ten is twice as good as a course rated five.  Also, what counts in the end is how each golfer personally values each course.  For some people the experience at Winn may indeed be worth the stiff fees.  

 
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James Bennett

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2007, 02:53:17 AM »
Jim

square the rating of the course and divide by the green fee.

Pebble, (9.07 x 9.07) / $450 = 0.183

BPB, (8.02 x 8.02) / $82 = 0.784

James B
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wsmorrison

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2007, 07:57:23 AM »
These value indexes probably appeal to John.  

So what is Shadow Creek by these methods?

8.11 x 100 divided by 500 = 1.622

8.11 x 8.11/500 = 0.132
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 07:57:56 AM by Wayne Morrison »
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Jay Flemma

Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2007, 05:01:03 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Naccarato on March 09, 2007, 08:23:58 PM
I haven't checked in some time, but last I looked Pelican Hll was like $245.00 on the weekend. With it's ongoing "restoration" ;) I expect it to exceed Trumps $300.00 green fee.


Restoration?  The course just opened what, 10 years ago  maybe a few more?  What do they have to change?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 05:03:42 PM by Jay Flemma »
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Adam Clayman

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Re:The most expensive public not top 100 courses..
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2007, 05:11:56 PM »
That's nothing Jay. I heard the other day Dismal River is making changes on 7 holes and it hasn't been open a year.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle
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