What can we learn about architecture

[Patrick_Mucci]

from a sporty Seth Raynor golf course that measured 5,655 from the Back tees ?

While the golf course has been modified over the years, including a recent alteration, it's remained an interesting, sporty challenge.

The wind plays a part in maintaining the sporty challenge, but, more so the architectural features.

And, WIDE fairways aren't it.

Before identifying the golf course, how would you imagine that SR made a 5,655 yard golf course interesting and challenging, right up until recent times ?

How did he configure and deploy his features ?

[Adam Sherer]

Well

Yale is longer than that.


I heard there was a Raynor in FL that was being "touched" by Nicklaus.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

Yes, that was Palm Beach Municipal I believe.
It's now a 7,100 yard golf course, but, that's not the course I'm referencing.

[Philippe Binette]

that golf is fun....

[Jim Nugent]

My guesses:  lots of par 3's, or at least more par 3's than par 5's (if there are any par 5's), and the par 3's are not easy.  Probably several short par 4's with good risk/reward options.  Difficulty/challenges on and around the greens, which may include some on the small side.  Maybe several blind shots.  Some awkward stances and lies: uphill, downhill, sideways.  Sand traps that can punish a wayward or overly aggressive shot.  Water?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Nugent,

Five par 3's, Three par 5's.

Can you believe that there was another set of tees that measured 5,477 ?  Only 178 yards shorter than the back tees ?  

The forward tees measured 4,911 and the ladies tees measured 4,833.

Seems like two sets of tees would have sufficed, but, we should never forget, at country/golf clubs, every interest group must be served  

[JESII]

from a sporty Seth Raynor golf course that measured 5,655 from the Back tees ?

How did he configure and deploy his features ?

Directly on the preferred route from tee to hole...

Oh yeah...must have interesting greens...

[Marty Bonnar]

Mr Mucci,
without seeing the golf course we can learn nothing.

thank you,
I remain,
yours sincerely,
Mr M.G. Bonnar, Esq.

[Billsteele]

Pat-I think that you are referencing the Everglades Club in Florida. Was the recent renovation done by Brian Silva? I have not seen the golf course but a few years ago was paired up with an assistant pro from the Everglades Club. From his description, it seems that the course finds a happy medium between precision and length. Given Raynor's background, I suppose it should not be surprising that he might tighten the preferred angles of play as distance lessens. Again, no first hand knowledge, just a hypothesis based on some discussion.

[Patrick_Mucci]

BillSteele,

Everglades it is.

Brian Silva did extensive work there recently.

A glimpse of google earth will help, perhaps someone could post the google earth image, it's in downtown Palm Beach.

[Jeff Doerr]

Here is the image.





Green Image



Green Complex with shared bunker

[Peter Pallotta]

Patrick
an old and sporty little track by a designer whose name history has forgotten (literally) was the first place I ever played a round of golf. I went back a couple of years ago with my nephew. You know what I learned? I learned to play a game that the designer had never intended. It was a bit of an eye-opener to see how 'programmed' we can get, even someone like me who doesn't play very often.  

When you have a 298 yard par 4 that's a a severe dogleg left, the designers original/intended landing zone doesn't mean much. And the obvious alternative route (trying to fly it over the trees and drive the green) doesn't work because the green is the size of a stamp and sits ten paces from the next tee -- not because the designer was guarding his "drivable par 4," but because he'd always intended a short iron approach. It was strange, and then challenging, and then a bit of fun trying to throw out the regular concepts, and to play a 7 iron off the tee on a par 4, or to go into a severely downhill par 3 with a sand wedge.

I have to admit, it took a lot of getting used to, and a lot of holes to get past the feeling of "what am I doing here?". But then I finally realized: "I'm playing golf!"

Peter  

[peter_p]

If they ever want a picture of a cape hole I know where to look.

[Jim Nugent]

Is the course flat, or does it have some rolls and folds?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is the course flat, or does it have some rolls and folds?  

Jim,

It's pretty flat.
There may be some roll, but, it's inconsequential.

It's an interesting, sporty course, especially when the wind is up.

[Bill_McBride]

If they ever want a picture of a cape hole I know where to look.

You talking about the peninsula green, the "real" cape hole?

I was looking for other Raynor/MacDonald template holes and didn't see anything but the Biarritz.  Any more?  I guess there is at least one double plateau but can't see topo well enough.