san diego golf- hidden gems??

[David Stamm]

Okay, as a resident San Diegan, here it goes. There are not any hidden gems in the city. San Diego is certainly one of, if not THE worst golf area for a major city in the country. I'll concur with Robert and Pete, Barona is a very good course and if here, should definitley be on the list. However, unless you can access to Rancho Sante Fe GC, San Diego CC or Pauma Valley CC, there is very little I could say with confidence to recommend. Carlton Oaks is very tough, but I've never found it anything more than that. It will be going under the knife this year with the assistance of Geoff Shackelford. Coronado is a fun course, nothing spectacular, but has great views of the city skyline and plays along the bay. Pete covered descriptions pretty well so I can't really add anything to that, but a drive to South Orange County is really not that far and it will give you a few more options. San Clemente Muni is a fun and inexpensive Billy Bell sr and jr design. Right down the road from there is Arroyo Trabuco and is not bad. Talega is close by as well, a Brian Curley/Fred Couples design, although I have not played that as of yet so I can't say how good it is. The SCGA Club is a RTJ Sr. is about an hour or so away in Murrieta. Not great, but has some fun holes. I will say that Maderas is one of the best public access in SD, but it can be very expensive depending on when you go. Good Luck. IM me if you need a fourth.

[dsilk]

Guys,
thank you!! awesome intel and great ideas for every price point-

much appreciated!

ds

[Forrest Richardson]

For the odd day out:

Balboa Park (Wm. Parc Bell...but significantly altered...yet, somehow an interesting experiece.)

Tecolote Canyon (Robert Trent Jones, Sr., and often, credeited to Sam Snead...?...an interesting executive layout in a narrow canyon. A true throw-back.)

http://www.americangolf.com/coursedetails.cfm?courseid=28

[Paul Payne]

I used to live in SD and played Balboa a few times. It is a fun course, nothing real special but I do love the canyons in the park. Somehow to me the canyons around San Diego really sort of define the area. Some are high end residential and some are tangles of undergrowth full of trash and anyone or anything that can live there.

If you get an early tee time at Balboa you can see it all. There are all types (homeless or illegals) who take refuge in the shrubs along the canyon walls in the park. They can become a makeshift gallery sometimes even taking a mild interest in your game as you pass by.

It can be a beautiful thing in the early morning.

 

[Paul Payne]

By the way....

You MUST go to Point Loma Seafoods for a fried squid sandwich! it is spectacular, I still have cravings. Big chunks of VERY tender squid about 1" thick, breaded and fried and served on french sourdough with home made tartar sauce.

Doh.....! I drooled again.

[Tim Pitner]

So, San Diego experts, I have a "friend" who was wondering--is Barona Creek a "ditch the family and brave any repurcussions" kind of course, or is it more of a great local course that an out of towner should play if they have the time?

[wsmorrison]

Pete,

When I played golf with Curt Schilling last year (he was in town playing the Phillies), he told me this was going to be his last year.  Interesting that he changed his mind.  He is one heck of a nice guy.  I hope he plays well this year and that he wants to play golf again...he doesn't play at home during the season; only on the road.

[Mike Sweeney]

Just back from a trip, and I thought this was a neat history of Marine Memorial GC @ Camp Pendleton:





I found the back nine to be pretty good:




Overall, a nice course with potential (soft greens, missing bunkers, and few trees that don't belong) in a very nice isolated canyon floor setting on Camp Pendleton.

[David Stamm]

Glad you liked it, Mike. It's my home course. I like it.

[Mark Kiely]

I'm a Marine Memorial fan, too. Around this time last year, they had allowed the grasses between certain holes to grow about a foot tall, creating a nice aesthetic in spots. Not sure if they have kept it that way. Also, the last time I was there, the course was swarming with squirrels.


Here's my album of 25 photos of the course, if anyone's interested:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24952137@N00/albums/72157658183999818/with/21372436886/

[Patrick Kiser]

The MCMGC history there is a little off, but that's not unusual.  For LJCC and SDCC ... those are both confirmed as being William Watson designs with Billy coming in afterwards to do some renovation work.


Love MCMGC for what it offers and agree it has some real potential in the right hands.

[Pete Lavallee]

OK Patrick, set us straight, who designed Marine Memorial? Is your take that it wasn't Billy Bell Jr.?

[Patrick Kiser]

Hi Pete,


I don't think I'm the resident expert for this, but I seem to recall that it was a son and father affair on this one.  Perhaps David Stamm can chime in, as I think he has more on this possibly.  I think even if one had not seen the history, one could probably guess from the ground, how the course is laid out and drains that it could have had some Billy Bell involvement.


The part that was off was the club's statement that both SDCC and LJCC were original Billy Bell designs.  That has been confirmed without doubt to be incorrect.  William Watson was the designer then later on Billy Bell came in for some rework.  David's got the skinny on this and I don't think I should take away any of his thunder... 

[Pete Lavallee]

Patrick,

I'm still checking the mailbox for my invitation to La Jolla CC! SD CC has embraced their Willie Watson heritage and now proudly display a plaque by the first tee noting his contributions.

Quite often William Park Bell, the father, gets credit for William Francis Bell, the son's work. We do know that Billy Bell Sr. died in 1956. He is often credited with designing the two courses at Torrey Pines, but they weren't opened until 1957. If the course was indeed opened in 1948, Billy Bell Sr. would seem to be be the most likely candidate for its design.

[Mark Provenzano]

Would the recommendations in the 2007 part of this thread still be accurate? Anything closed or opened once that's worth playing?

[Mark Kiely]

Would the recommendations in the 2007 part of this thread still be accurate? Anything closed or opened once that's worth playing?

On a quick scan, I didn't see Maderas mentioned in this thread. Maybe it opened post-2007, I'm not sure. It's a nice Johnny Miller layout in Poway. https://www.flickr.com/photos/24952137@N00/albums/72157659887719308/with/22439719192/


Singing Hills is mentioned in this thread, but now goes by the name Sycuan Golf Resort. I love both regulation courses there.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Mark,

    I am not sure how much Johnny Miller input went into Maderas, but the associate for Robert Muir Graves who spent all his time there was Neal Meagher, who used to post here. 

P.S. The real hidden gem in San Diego is Pete Lavallee.  That man knows how to host a party.

[Charles Lund]

Maderas opened in 1999.

Bob Graves did the majority of the design work and Johnny Miller came in and suggested some alternatives on a limited number of holes.  In past five years, bunkers were reworked to allow better drainage and finer grain sand used throughout.  Has held up reasonably well with the water shortage.

I think the final stretch of seven holes is challenging and aesthetically very nice.

Fairways are bermuda, which goes dormant in winter.  Superintendent stopped fighting poa annua and they are maintaining greens from that perspective.

It is generally in very good shape.

Have played there since 2000 and bought a condo in San Diego in 2001, in Rancho Bernardo.

Being a city property owner,  I can play Torrey Pines as resident.  Probably would not pay full out of town rate.

Torrey South and Maderas are included in top 100 of America's public courses.

Aviara and Maderas are Troon affiliated.  California Twosome card will get a two for one play at each course and discounted rates for two within booking window.

I like Barona Creek very much but haven't been there for a couple of years.  Barona Club card is free and gets discount of 20 percent.

Have played a lot of the courses in the area in the last 15 years.  There are quite a few courses in the area that would be 3.5 or 4 stars in the old Golf Digest rankings.  They are decent places to play and lower rates are often available.

You can't fault the weather.

Charles Lund

[Mark Kiely]

Thanks Craig and Charles. Good to know!

[David Stamm]

Late response, but here it goes. The course did indeed open in 1948. Bell was able to secure some military projects in part because of his prior relationship with the Army Corps of Engineers as a turf consultant during the war. El Toro was another military project that sadly is now NLE.


As Patrick stated, there is much on the ground as well as aerials form the '50's that shows WPB's hand, such as the unusual serpentine like bunker around 1 green that is no longer there. In addition, there are a few bunker carcasses that are not anything like WFB ever did, such as the complex to the right of the 15th green complex. There are other things on the ground there as well, even today.


In addition, Francis did not join his fathers' business until after the war (still not sure on precisely when that was), but since the course was built in 1948, and the war ended in 1945, I'm not sure how much of an influence WFB would've had on MM, if at all. I feel very comfortable calling MM a WPB course.


Now, there has been work done to to the course since it was initially built, much of it for the worse, but that's another subject. Having said that, the course overall, it is quite solid and worth seeing, as there is not much original WPB left anywhere.


4,5,9, 12(from the right tee), 15 and 16 are very solid holes.

[Mike Sweeney]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have played with Pete in the past and perhaps next trip to San Diego, we can get a group together.


I know it is not "great", but I really would like to play Coronado GC as I have driven past it so many times. We went to "The Del" for dinner and thankfully the wifey is not much of a drinker so she drove home over "The Bridge". I think the Bay Bridge in Annapolis is scarier, but not by much!

[David Stamm]

Mike, Coronado is a very pleasant experience and showcases the beauty of our city quite well. I always enjoy playing there.

[Pete Lavallee]

Mike,

My buddy and I were on the wait list for 5 years to get into the Coronado Men's Club! It was well worth it as we have a two day weekend tournament every month, with a couple of one day satellites. We get free breakfast on Sat and free lunch and beer on Sun! We get great participation with the tee box full from 6:00 till 12:00. We kiss the ground every time we get to play in their events. It is truly the ideal muni course, the wide fairways and very low rough make it easy for the beginner to get around and the push up greens provide a great challenge for the better player. The setting is fantastic with 4 holes that play along side of Glorrieta Bay. Conditions have come a long way as the Poa Annua greens are maintained with minimal water so ball marks and footprints are no longer an issue. They don't discriminate against tourists either as Coronado residents get a slight discount and everyone else pays the same.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

How about Rancho Bernardo? We're escaping the obscene heat here in the Valley of the Sun for a few days there in August. It's now a JC Golf affiliate and so is Encinitas Ranch  . Is that course nearby?

Thanks.

[Mike Sweeney]

How about Rancho Bernardo? We're escaping the obscene heat here in the Valley of the Sun for a few days there in August. It's now a JC Golf affiliate and so is Encinitas Ranch  . Is that course nearby?

As a Walnut Lane guy, I really do suggest a trip to Goat Hill: