[Brian Joines]

I found some more pictures on my computer that I'd like to share. I've only played at the Trophy Club once and it was a quick round by myself. For this reason, I can't go into much depth on reviewing some of these holes. Hopefully some of the Indy people on the board could help out in that department.

The Trophy Club is located just northwest of Indianpolis. It's a Tim Liddy design That is open to the public. I really enjoyed my round here despite the soft November conditions. There's a good amount of elevation change on the course and lots of options on most holes. I really liked a few of the par 5's (particularly #11).

My favorite course in Indy is the Fort and I thought the Trophy Club was not far behind. I haven't played at Wolf Run or Crooked Stick though. How do those two compare to The Fort and Trophy Club?

Here a few pictures from the course. Enjoy

Hole 2

Hole 5

Hole 6

Hole 10

Hole 11

Hole 13

Hole 15


Hole 16

Hole 17

Hole 18

[Andy Troeger]

Brian,

I agree that The Fort is very good, I've not played The Trophy Club.

With that said though, I think Crooked Stick and especially Wolf Run are a step above the rest.

[Steve Burrows]

I've played 3 of the 4 courses mentioned here (Wolf Run excluded), and each of them are assets to central Indiana.  The Fort is the most fun to play, based on it's topography and scenery, but I still think Crooked Stick is the best of the three (like an aged wine, the maturity of its ever evolving design shines through).  Again, I still need to see Wolf Run before making a decision on it.

What is most interesting, I think, is the influence of Pete Dye on golf in Indiana.  Three of the courses mentioned above have his touch on it, whether it was him directly, or indirectly based on his interaction with Liddy.  And we also have Brickyard, Plum Creek, Bridgewater, Rock Hollow, Eagle Creek, and even Sahm and Coffin.  It's quite a legacy.

[Andy Troeger]

What is most interesting, I think, is the influence of Pete Dye on golf in Indiana.  Three of the courses mentioned above have his touch on it, whether it was him directly, or indirectly based on his interaction with Liddy.  And we also have Brickyard, Plum Creek, Bridgewater, Rock Hollow, Eagle Creek, and even Sahm and Coffin.  It's quite a legacy.

Others under the influence would include Kampen--Purdue, Sultan's Run, and Mystic Hills. I'm sure there's probably others...

[Glenn Spencer]

I agree with most everything that has been said. CS is my favorite course in Indiana, the fact that I have not seen Sycamore Hills, most likely doesn't matter. In Indianapolis, I think Meridian Hills deserves some mention with Trophy Club and the like. 18 is my only question mark on that course. Broadmoor is a class act as well. Anybody seen CC of Indianapolis?

[Andy Troeger]

Glenn,
I've seen CCI and Sycamore Hills, personally I think that Sycamore, Crooked Stick, Wolf Run, and Victoria National (the only one of the 4 I haven't seen) are really a level above everything else in the state--although I again haven't seen everything including Sagamore or Bridgewater along with some of the publics.

That next level has a lot of good courses in it. South Bend CC, Rock Hollow, The Fort, and Sultan's Run are my personal favorites, but Meridian Hills, CCI, Broadmoor, Fort Wayne CC, and some others would also be in that next group...all quality courses.

[Jim Nugent]

Glenn, have you played Victoria National?  If so, what did you think of it?

[Glenn Spencer]

Jim,

Yes, I played Victoria National a few times. When I played it the golf course was in perfect condition and played perfectly. I really like the golf course, very scenic and plenty tough. The greens have plenty of movement and there are a few different ways of playing each hole. I have seen in several places that #15 is a great par 5. I thought it was the worst hole on the golf course. I guess that hole would be better for the members. Seems awfully tight off the tee. I still don't know how to play that hole.#14 is one of the best par 4's that I have seen. #16 is so difficult, when you first look at it, it is hard to imagine. The hole has to be fair though, as even I made a birdie there, but it looks impossible when you first see it. #2 is a FABULOUS hole. #5 is just an amazing hard par 3. The only qualms that I have with the place beside the tee shot on 15 is the finish. I found 17 and 18 to be letdowns compared to the rest of the golf course. It feels like you are building toward a crescendo, but you aren't it. Fabulous golf course and if they held a PGA or US Open there tomorrow, I would think it would stand out well. Oh, btw, I like the first hole as an opener very much. Crooked Stick and Victoria are very close. You can't lose, but at gunpoint, I would probably take Crooked Stick. Maybe though, maybe. Both of these golf courses are in different categories than Wolf Run in my estimation. Wolf Run is great, but these two are a cut above.

[Glenn Spencer]

Andy,

How much do I need to see CCI? What do you think is the hole that is lacking the most at The Trophy Club? Say Trophy Club is an 79 out of 100, where does that Warren Course compare according to you. Is FTWCC worth a 4-5 hour drive. I have an old tennis pro that plays out there. I might go see it. We played Broadmoor as a par 70 for qualifying a few years ago. I put that course, that day at that par, as one of the 20 toughest and fairest courses that I have been on. 12 as a par 4 was quite a challenge. That green is insane. Great, great club there. I wonder where the new French Lick is going to fall in this conversation. We need to do a 10 best holes in Indiana nomination.

[Andy Troeger]

Glenn,
The Trophy Club is actually one I have not seen so I can't compare. If you have the means, I would try to play FWCC and Sycamore Hills on a trip to Ft. Wayne. FWCC is I think on a comparable level of Meridian Hills and Broadmoor, although probably not quite as difficult. Broadmoor is a bit tougher for me to evaluate because I played it in the spring after a week of rain so the greens were very slow.

I should have included Warren in that next tier as well, its as good as FWCC, Meridian, or Broadmoor in my book.

I'm willing to contribute some Indiana holes if you want.

[Doug Ralston]

Glenn;

Glad we agree on something. We played Trophy Club last Fall, and it was indeed a treat. The only Indiana course I rate higher that I have played so far are Sultan's Run [Liddy is GOOD!], and equal to it I might rate Coyote Crossing and Buck Point [surprised?]. Slightly lower is Purgatory and Prairie View. Rock Hollow is on our 'to do' list for this year.

I of course do not mention Victoria National in the same breath, since it is private [the only one I have ever played]. It is an awesome course, with frightfully [for me] little forgiveness. It is was blast, and very beautiful. I have only played 2 courses I would more want to replay, and they are in Kentucky.

Indiana has some excellent public courses. Kentucky does too. I agree with Glenn again that Ohio seems to have less of that high quality, though we have not yet played in the Cleveland area [Little Mountain etc]. I liked some better than Glenn [Shaker Run, for instance], and I would like to see what Glenn would think of Black Diamond.

The upshot is, I think people here would like Trophy Club. Definitely fits into the mold of 'favored' architecture for GCA.

Doug

[Brian Joines]

I have played the Warren course many times. At first I found it to be a little to penal but over time have really come to like it. The course is built on a very average piece of property. I think C&C did an excellent job with the property given. It is also a very easy walk. The conditions are very firm and very fast in the summer. I played there right before the Western Quals last summer with the wind was blowing like crazy. In those conditions, it was probably the toughest round of golf I've ever played. I liked the greens and bunkering more at Warren than Trophy Club. I just wish the corridor's were a little wider. The heather grass really creeps in on the fairways on some holes, too much for windy and fast conditions.

Also, how does Trophy Club stack up against some of Liddy's other designs (Rock Hollow, Sultan's Run...)?

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,
The Trophy Club is actually one I have not seen so I can't compare. If you have the means, I would try to play FWCC and Sycamore Hills on a trip to Ft. Wayne. FWCC is I think on a comparable level of Meridian Hills and Broadmoor, although probably not quite as difficult. Broadmoor is a bit tougher for me to evaluate because I played it in the spring after a week of rain so the greens were very slow.

I should have included Warren in that next tier as well, its as good as FWCC, Meridian, or Broadmoor in my book.

I'm willing to contribute some Indiana holes if you want.

Doug,

Cut that out, we agree on plenty. Buck Point does deserve some mention. I loved that golf course.

Andy,

I have the means to play FWCC, but I have to play Sycamore in a tourney. I think I might do it. I like the looks of it from the website.

Brian,

I haven't played the others, all I know is that I love the Trophy Club. I feel you on the heather grass. We had to borrow a rule from the Harvester and play it as hazard for one of my buddies. Snake rule we called it.

Ok, I had a few too many cocktails at a birthday party, but here are some of my Indiana favorites. I hope that you all will add yours with Andy and me.

Crooked Stick-6,7,8,11,14,15,17,18
Buck Point 11,12,17
Victoria- 2,10,14,16
Wolf- 1,13,14,16
Forest Hills- #10 is a marvelous par 3 in my book.
Purgatory- first par 5, 5? is it. and then 7? the par 3.
Meridian- 1, 5? the par 3. 6? the par 5, 7? the short par 4
Broadmoor- 11,12,1,2,6
Trophy-1,4,6,7,9,11,12,13,17

Doug,

I feel the need to get over to Sultan's Run. I really want to see it.

[Andy Troeger]

Favorite Indiana holes...

Wolf Run: 1, 5, 7, 9, 12, 16, 18
Sycamore: 8, 15, 16
Crooked Stick: 6, 13, 14, 16, 18
SBCC: 4, 5, 6, 10, 13, 14, 16, 17
Sultan's: 5, 10, 12, 17, 18
Rock Hollow: 7, 12, 18
CCI: 5
Blackthorn: 14, 18
Warren: 16, 18
Fort: 11, 18
FWCC: there's a couple good 4's, but I don't remember #'s
Stonehenge: 11
Long Beach: 1
Bear Slide: 18
Beechwood: 9

That's a good start...if I think of more I'll add them.

[Glenn Spencer]

Andy,

Nothing from Broadmoor?

It looks like we agree on these.

1 and 16 at The Wolf

6, 14 and 18 at CS

Looks like there are a lot of good holes out at South Bend. I don't know how I am going to play that one. I know that we have spoken about 13 at CS in the past. What is it that you like so much about that hole? The green is fabulous, I get that, is there anything else? What hole do you like the least out at The Wolf?

[Doug Ralston]

BTW; The Reese Jone nine at Otter Creek is better, IMHO, than the RT Jones 18.

I note that no one has mentioned Belterra [Fazio]. I have not yet played it but this year have a couple 1/2 price3 coupons, so it is on the agenda. I not only have heard some good things, but have some really nice pix. Anyone else played it?

Also, Prairie View had some nice holes. I would not usually pay $90 when there are still a lot of excellent and cheaper courses I have not tried ...... but they gave me a freebie for my birthday! Nice course.

Doug

[Andy Troeger]

Glenn,
Broadmoor has a lot of good holes certainly, I'm having a hard time thinking of a great one, maybe #14 would be my favorite.

Honestly I haven't played Crooked Stick in I think 11 years so my memory is somewhat sketchy and I just remember liking it ...its a course I really wish I could see again actually because it was one of the first two really good courses I ever saw. I want to say the hillside to the right made it partially blind and gave the whole a little character, but I could be making it up

I really don't think there's a bad hole at Wolf. I considered #2, 4, 8, 13, 14, 15, and 17 in addition to the ones I mentioned. I guess #10 was my least favorite, but its still a heck of a tee shot. I birdied #11 the second time around, or I might say that one. If that's the worst hole though that's impressive in my book.

[Doug Ralston]

Oh yeah, and as for good holes, I think Buck Point has a bunch. Besides those Glenn mentioned, I like the back to back par-5's on the front nine. At Sultan's Run, you will find 4 beautiful par-3's. Then you will hear the arguement that they are too similar. I enjoyed them, whatever. And of course #18 is breathtaking.

I will bet I have played a course with the most incredible greens in Indiana, and you have not. It is called St Annes, at North Vernon. The layout is bland, the greens are astounding. Donald Ross would have been proud of them.

Doug

[Glenn Spencer]

Andy,

9 at The Wolf has to be in the conversation for somewhat bad holes, no?

Doug,

Buck Point is solid. I like 9,10 and 11 out there as well.

[Andy Troeger]

Glenn,
I had 9 at Wolf as among my favorites actually. Its pretty darn hard and there's not much place to miss, but that goes for just about every hole out there!

11 at Broadmoor is a good par 3 as well.

[Brian Joines]

Looks like there are a lot of good holes out at South Bend. I don't know how I am going to play that one. I know that we have spoken about 13 at CS in the past. What is it that you like so much about that hole? The green is fabulous, I get that, is there anything else? What hole do you like the least out at The Wolf?

I will be back in South Bend in May. If you're ever in the area, let me know. I'd be glad to take you (or any of you guys) out to South Bend CC. It's a really good course that flies way under the radar.

Andy,

You pretty much have the holes at SBCC covered. I'd also add:
Blackthorn - 4, 7.  (Great collection of par 5's at Blackthorn)
Warren - 4.

[Brian Joines]

I also like 11 at SBCC.

[Andy Troeger]

Looks like there are a lot of good holes out at South Bend. I don't know how I am going to play that one. I know that we have spoken about 13 at CS in the past. What is it that you like so much about that hole? The green is fabulous, I get that, is there anything else? What hole do you like the least out at The Wolf?

I will be back in South Bend in May. If you're ever in the area, let me know. I'd be glad to take you (or any of you guys) out to South Bend CC. It's a really good course that flies way under the radar.

Andy,

You pretty much have the holes at SBCC covered. I'd also add:
Blackthorn - 4, 7.  (Great collection of par 5's at Blackthorn)
Warren - 4.

Brian,
Why 4 and 7? I like the course but have never been much of a fan of those two holes. I like #9 and the finishing stretch of #13-18 best I think.

Good call on #11 at SBCC as well. That hole eats me for lunch.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,
I had 9 at Wolf as among my favorites actually. Its pretty darn hard and there's not much place to miss, but that goes for just about every hole out there!

11 at Broadmoor is a good par 3 as well.

Absolutely it is. I also I like the short guy on the front. Is it 4? or 3?

[Andy Troeger]

#4 is a good three as well. #3 has an unbelievable green on a pretty strong four.

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