[Matt_Ward]

Great to see match play and hats off to Tuscon in hosting such a big time event -- a great town that has been a steadfast supporter of professional golf for many years.

Just a quick note -- I've played both of the courses at The Gallery and it would have been nice to see action on the well thought out North Course. First rate effort by John Fought and Tom Lehman. The differences in overall styles, qualities and demands are truly significant in my mind.

They may have better gallery flow with the South but the routing there is purely one-dimensional -- out and back.

Would have been a real treat to see the boys play the long par-5 9th on the North -- from say 600+ yards to see how many would give it a rip in two blows.

[Mike Sweeney]

I have not seen either, but this seems like a very interesting match play course with drivable par 4's and reachable par 5's. Is it "just another desert course" or this place pretty good?

[Tom Renli]

The more I play and see the South course, the better I think it is.   It gets away from the typical target desert golf, hit it in the narrow strech of grass or take your big number and move on.  I am surprised at how the pros are making so many birdies this week, shouldn't be, but am.  It is becoming redundant, but another example of length (7450 yards) is not obstacle at all for the best players.  The challenge on the South are the greens, especially given some of the pins and short siding yourself.

Gets to Matt's point, many more doglegs and a little tighter on the North, which may prevent them from bombing it.  The other difference for me is, the North was built more on the mountain, so there is some elevation change.  However, the South really plays down hill, over a club on specific shots, for the first 7 holes going out.  The opposite coming home.

Anyone heard much about next year's venue, the Ritz Carlton course just North of the propertY?

[Brad Tufts]

They just mentioned the new course on the broadcast, called the Tortolina Club or something.  They also said that the course was supposed to be finished in November, but the jury is out whether it will be ready in time to host the tourney next Feb.

[Kyle Henderson]

Anyone heard much about next year's venue, the Ritz Carlton course just North of the propertY?

With Nicklaus' help, 2009 should be divine
Opinion by Greg Hansen
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 02.20.2008

"Jack Nicklaus' itinerary Tuesday was nuts. He awoke at his home in West Palm Beach, Fla., flew to Tucson, spent two hours getting his work shoes dirty at the still-under-construction Ritz-Carlton Golf Club, and then flew to Hawaii.
One day.
Among 51 other locations, Nicklaus is building/designing golf courses in the Ukraine, Norway, Vietnam, Greece and the United Arab Emirates. And did I mention Ludhiana, India, and Chongqing, China?
Nicklaus turned 68 last month, and if you think he has kicked back, cut back or lost his reputation as the world's No. 1 golfer, you are mistaken.
He is a golf-course-building machine, a prolific, work-driven dynamo who by 2010 will have built 400 golf courses globally. It is a record that will never get the attention that his 18 major golf victories did, but one that nevertheless seems unassailable for as long as man shall live.
For the last act in his wonderful life, Nicklaus has become the Tiger Woods of golf course design. He retains such clout that when an entourage of six SUVs drove down a dirt road Tuesday afternoon, kicking up dust near the 17th green of the Ritz-Carlton's Tortolita Course, PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem was in the group awaiting Nicklaus' arrival.
"I still get a kick out of somebody wanting this old man to come and develop a golf course,'' Nicklaus said in his typical self-effacing style. "It's a legacy from my standpoint, something that will be here long after my life and my golf game.''
It's ironic that the man who played in just one Tucson Open (1963) in his superb career is involved in preserving Southern Arizona's place on the PGA Tour.
When the WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship begins this morning at The Gallery Golf Club's South Course, Nicklaus won't be in the field or in the city limits, but his presence will be felt.
It's not much of a secret that limited spectator-access to the Gallery Golf Club is neither fan-friendly nor convenient. It's like wedging 20,000 golfers, spectators, volunteers and a sizable workforce into a space built for half that.
Nicklaus' Tortolita Course, which is to open in January, will change that. If all goes as expected, it should make the Tucson venue attractive enough to earn another four-year contract, running through the 2014 event, from the PGA Tour.
The Ritz-Carlton property will never be a stadium course playing host to tens of thousands of party-mad, sun-worshipping fans, a la Scottsdale's FBR Open. But it will give the Match Play event room to breathe — and even to expand.
"Tucson probably was getting lost on the tour to some extent,'' Nicklaus said. "But all of the sudden, it is becoming a central focus on the tour.
"To see Tucson pop back up in the game is great; Match Play has revived what's happening in golf with this town.''
Nicklaus' relationship with Tucson began, oddly enough, with the founder of Tucson National, Bill Nanini. In 1961, the two men signed a contract. Nicklaus would play on tour; Nanini would be his sponsor.
That trust splintered, bitterly, when Nicklaus got so prominent so fast. Litigation ensued. Both men agreed to remain silent on the matter. Nicklaus didn't return to Tucson until 1983, when he designed the La Paloma Country Club for Dave Mehl and his late brother, George.
La Paloma was Nicklaus' 26th golf course. He has again partnered with Mehl, the developer of the vast Dove Mountain property.
Mehl said Tuesday that it is his hope that the Ritz-Carlton Golf Club will play host to the Match Play Championships for more than just the 2009-10 portion of the current contract.
"Our intent is to work something out for the next four years,'' he said. There is no agreement, or plan, for Mehl and Nicklaus to develop another golf course together. So this is likely it for Southern Arizona, too.
If the Tortolita Course doesn't keep the PGA Tour happy, what else possibly could?
The Tortolita layout will be a traditional golf course design in that the No. 9 hole and the No. 18 hole return to the clubhouse, near the soon-to-be-built Ritz-Carlton Hotel. By comparison, the Gallery's South Course is a long, meandering loop in which a foot soldier golf fan can wander into the desert and not be seen for hours.
"Fans will be able to see a lot of golf here,'' Nicklaus said. "I was asked to design a golf course that could house a match-play tournament, and that's what I've done.''

[Tony Petersen]

I would have to agree with Matt that the North course at The Gallery is MUCH better from a golf standpoint... The reason they have gone with the South is movement of traffic & Corporate Tents, etc. Much easier on the South from that standpoint...

I have to disagree, however, with those that think that The Gallery is anything more than another good AZ desert course. Sure, the maintenance in world-class, the greens have some great movement and tons of false fronts (and backs) which make for some really interesting green complexes, but in no way is it in the same league as a Desert Mountain (Geronimo, Chiricahua, Outlaw), Vista Verde, Mirabel, Silver Leaf, Whisper Rock, GC at Scottsdale, Talking Rock, etc. I just don't see it, and I have played The Gallery on more than a few occasions... Great club with good golf and some great green complexes,  but nothing to write home about... much like its neighbor over at Ventana Canyon... IMHO 

[Matt_Ward]

TonyP:

Be curious to know if you have any info on the numbers of people attending this year's event. The crowds looked to be sparse in so many spots.

It's too bad the North Course could not host the event -- would love to see the boys handle the long par-5 9th -- not at 700+ yards -- but somewhere around 600+ to see if they could get there in two blows.

[TEPaul]

Matt:

I'm glad to hear you like the architecture of Fought. Let me ask you something----have you ever had the opportunity to sit down with him for an extended time and discuss with him some of his theories on golf course architecture?

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

I had the pleasure in speaking w John Fought extensively when he was present during the grand opening of the South Course. I like the work he's provided with a few of his other designs that I have played. But, I don't see much uniqueness with the South layout he created which was used for the match play event.

The North is the better of the two architecturally, but as others have opined it doesn't lend itself for the galleries and other tournament related aspects (e.g, tents, etc, etc).

[Art Roselle]

Would have been a real treat to see the boys play the long par-5 9th on the North -- from say 600+ yards to see how many would give it a rip in two blows.

Better make those 700 yards.  There were a couple above 600 yards on the South course and a seemingly large percentage of the field knocked it on with no problem.  Holmes hit 4-iron into one of them (albeit from 265 or something).

I know the air is dry and the fairways were fast and they were at a modest altitude, but that tournament put as big a spotlight on the distance and ball problem as any I can recall.  It is one thing to see a few freaks hit it 340 (Holmes, Tiger, etc.)  It is quite another to see Stewart Cink casually fly it 324 onto a par 4.  Every player in the field seemed to be hitting it well over 300 yards, often on the fly.  No course can hold up to that and play the way it is supposed to.  The idea that a 350 yard par 4 is "too short" for a tournament is depressing.

[Matt_Ward]

Art:

I have a healthy respect for the length the tour players can hit it. However, the 9th at Gallery North is roughly 725 yards and I don't see any of them getting there in two blows. Maybe the Jason Zuback's of the world can get there but not Tiger and company.

FYI -- the prevailing wind generally blows in the player's face.

One other thing -- the 2nd shot is nearly all carry to the green itself.

[TEPaul]

"The North is the better of the two architecturally, but as others have opined it doesn't lend itself for the galleries and other tournament related aspects (e.g, tents, etc, etc)."

Matt:

I wouldn't know as I've never laid eyes on the North course. I thought the course they played the Accenture Match play championship on produced a helluva exciting match play tournament though.

[Matt_Ward]

TEPaul:

I too enjoyed the event -- but the issue rests more with the course itself and unfortunately many people may know very little of the big brother North Course.

As you likely know, professional events can often be staged on courses that fulfill other aspects such as gallery flow, corporate tents, etc, etc. The Gallery's North Course has a richer array of different holes and the overall routing is much more diverse in terms of direction and hole quality.

I'm just glad match play is still on the tour's agenda -- be curious to see if they could reformat the event to be a double elimination event in order to keep fan interest alive.

[Matt_Cohn]

7,400 yards in Tucson is like 7,000 at sea level. That's not a long golf course at all. They had golf courses that long 40 years ago.

BTW, I really like the Gallery North too. 9 is sort of weird but interesting. The rest is pretty darn good....but really hard to get a "gallery" around, I think.

[Jerry Kluger]

Maybe I expect too much but I thought most of the golf, even with it being match play, was boring.  Tiger is clearly the superior player against anyone but the course itself did not present sufficient challenges to players at that level.  You didn't see Tiger facing the kinds of putts that you see at ANGC or Sawgrass - you didn't see recovery shots requiring great imagination - for that matter, you didn't see a need to really drive the ball well as the fairways were wide and the rough wasn't bad.  Yes, a terrible shot wound up in the desert and there was little chance of recovery but so what.  Firm up the greens so the players can't simply attack a front pin by hitting the ball 20 feet past the hole and spinning it back to the pin. 

I'm looking forward to the Masters and the Players where Tiger will demonstrate that he is the best not only because he is mentally the best but his superior shotmaking and imagination will put him in the winner's circle once again. 

[tlavin]

Maybe I expect too much but I thought most of the golf, even with it being match play, was boring.  Tiger is clearly the superior player against anyone but the course itself did not present sufficient challenges to players at that level.  You didn't see Tiger facing the kinds of putts that you see at ANGC or Sawgrass - you didn't see recovery shots requiring great imagination - for that matter, you didn't see a need to really drive the ball well as the fairways were wide and the rough wasn't bad.  Yes, a terrible shot wound up in the desert and there was little chance of recovery but so what.  Firm up the greens so the players can't simply attack a front pin by hitting the ball 20 feet past the hole and spinning it back to the pin. 

I'm looking forward to the Masters and the Players where Tiger will demonstrate that he is the best not only because he is mentally the best but his superior shotmaking and imagination will put him in the winner's circle once again. 

Agreed on pretty much all counts.  I'm glad the tour has the event and I'm glad the tour is keeping the event in Tucson.  I don't think that every tour course has to be spectacular so I don't have any problem watching them play the Gallery every year, even though the golf course looks like cookie cutter desert pabulum with a bunch of scenic saguaro cacti thrown in for viewing pleasure. 

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