[Dan_Callahan]

Thought I would share this article that popped up in a Google search for north shore golf courses. Not sure how old it is (can't be too dated—it includes a reference to Kevin Federline  ).

http://northshoremassgolf.com/Volumes/Volume%204/4_3/cover.html

[Brad Tufts]

An interesting article no doubt.

I have met Phil Wogan, and he is an interesting guy.  My grandfather and I were doing research about a Ross connection to Tedesco (apparently he consulted on the design of one hole, #12, that incidentally was not carried out to his plans), and visited Mr. Wogan at his home in Ipswich.  

It was fun to see the workshop of a career-long architect, as it was full of golf memorbilia and plans for courses he and his father were involved with (Skip Wogan is credited with influencing the designs of Tedesco, Essex, Webhannet, Sankaty Head, etc).  Also interesting was a pegboard wall covered with hanging traceable scaled templates for golf holes, par 3s on top, then par 4s doglegging in every direction, then par 5s.  Probably very useful for drawing plans, although hopefully a hole or two made it to the land different than the templates.  

As a 20-year old the year I met him, I worked at Indian Ridge CC in Andover, one of Mr. Wogan's designs, and he was very interested in what they had done with the course in the 15-20 years since it was built.  He even called me in the pro shop one day to ask me a few questions, though I wasn't working that day.  You'd think someone in the shop would recognize his name, but that wasn't the case!

I didn't know my hometown of Marblehead had an international golf architect living in it, Cabell Robinson.

I'm also surprised the article used Turner Hill as an example of delayed construction when another new North Shore course, the Renaissance Club in Haverhill, took 5-6 years from start to finish, including a redesign before opening, and a couple management changes.

NSG is a pretty good little local magazine, we are blessed with a good number of decent writers in the area.

Dan, was there anything specific you were looking up about NS golf?

[Billsteele]

Dan-An interesting article...especially the parts dealing with Phil Wogan and Brian Silva. Thanks for posting. By exploring the inner links, it appears that the article was published in July of 2006.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks for the link Dan.

[Dan_Callahan]

Dan, was there anything specific you were looking up about NS golf?

I moved to North Andover last July, and I'm trying to find decent courses nearby (Red Tail is a little too far away to play regularly).

[Brad Tufts]

The old standbys around where i grew up are Beverly Golf & Tennis, Gannon Municipal, and Olde Salem Greens.  They are all Wayne Stiles courses.

However, Beverly's management company is slowly killing it, and OSG is a muni 9-holer.  Gannon has been worked on quite a bit lately, and falls into the "good muni" category.  I haven't played it since they have done the work, but I've heard the conditions are quite good, and they have solved much of the pace of play problems.

As for most of the course in that magazine, they aren't great.  Many are not regulation length.  There is Far Corner in Boxford, and also the Meadows in Peabody, but they are both a combination of decent and weird.  Just avoid Bradford like the plague.

As far as N. Andover, I haven't played too many of the public tracks up that way.  I would think that area brings in So. NH, and there are a couple decent tracks in that area.

Of course none of these are anything close to Red Tail, but there may be only 5-10 public courses in NE that are on that level.

[DTaylor18]

Brad, I know it's private, but what do you think of The Georgetown Club, another Phil Wogan course?

[ChipRoyce]

Brad, I know it's private, but what do you think of The Georgetown Club, another Phil Wogan course?

Dan /  Brad;
 Before I moved to Texas, I was a member at Georgetown.
Long story short, its a decent course, but it really is too much course for the land its on. Too many holes were compromised in order to fit the land. Details below...

1) Its a great value compared to the cost of many private courses in the area

2) That said, you get what you pay for. Wasn't that interested in hanging out with most of the other members.

3) The winner of the Big Break 7 (Brianna Vega) grew up on the course!

4) There's some memorable / good holes on the course, however, there's a lot of weak portions of the course as well

Specifically:
 #1 - Good opening hole - narrow, but nice little green tucked in a little hollow
 #2 - Interesting dogleg right with a very undulating green
 #3 - Not the original hole on the course - the orig. green was pretty cool (par 3), however, the owner had some issues with the hole and redesigned it himself. The resultign work is lackluster and didn't drain well at all.
# 4 - Strange 90 degree dogleg left. Better hole now with increased distance than when first built. Very difficult back then and not much fun.
#5 - Classic straight-ahead par 4 with push-up green.
#6 - OK par 4 - carry over a marsh area and VERY tough approach to a green with marsh and trees on the right (given penalty if you don't hit the green)
#7 - Decent par 4 uphill, carry over marsh - good green
#8 - Cool short par 3 - great green complex.
#9 - Par 5 - hard right dogleg. Bad tee shot, but interesting approach, pond left which comes into play on the approach to the green.
#10 - Par 4 - cool par 4 - lake on left, drive (Cut off as much as you want) better play is 3 wood to nice green complex.
#11 - par 5? - Split the area spaced by 2 trees - layup over same marsh as #6 and get to nice green complex
#12 - tight par 3 - long and hard to make par
#13- good dogleg par 4 - drive to landing area and carry over marsh to green
#14 - similar to #13 but dogleg left. Longer par 4.
#15 - par 3 uphill - good green, sloped back to front
#16 - Par 4 - tough ending to course, 3 par 4's in a row
#17 - don't remember
#18 - Very tough Par 4 - narrow corridor, approach into largish green with trees on both sides

Funny - been 7 years since I played, but rememered most of the info in 15 min....

[ForkaB]

Dan

If you want to go down and dirty, try a couple of 9-holers that graced my summers on Cape Ann as a child--Candlewood and Cape Ann.  People's golf at its very best......

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I have played Cape Ann a number of times, and it's an enjoyable course.  The view from the 4th tee is stunning, and worth the trip alone.

As for Candlewood...  I have driven by it a number of times.  And I have seen "the people" playing it.

[ForkaB]

Martin

Don't knock "the people."  You are or will one day be, one of "them."

There is much more to Cape Ann than the over-hyped 4th, and Candlewood morphs into genius once you get off the highway, unless 230 yard blind par-3's are not your cup of tea.....

Rich

[Martin Del Vecchio]

And here's my Georgetown story.

It was public for a few years, and I went with my two good-time buddies.  One of them arrived expecting to play in hiking boots.

Needless to say, the guy in the clubhouse didn't appreciate that, and started to give us the business.  He calmed down enough to offer his own golf shoes, and remarkably, they were the right size.

He met us on the first tee with the shoes, and started lecturing us about etiquette, etc.  He got a little worked up again, and his parting shot was to turn to me, and screan, "And tuck that shirt in!!!!"

A different friend later joined when it went private.  He said that the guy who runs it is a little maniacal, and I always wondered if it was the same guy who yelled at me.  He echoes what Dan Taylor said; he joined for the golf, and didn't care to spend too much time with the other members.

[Brad Tufts]

I generally agree with most of what has been said about G'Town.  I used to play it quite a bit 7-10 yrs. ago when my Jr. membership at Tedesco prohibited play by us under-18s until after 3 most days, and it was public.

The course is not bad, is basically fair, has an ok combination of open, meadow-like holes, and several bounded by woods.  There are a few awkward shots like the second shot on 4, the approach on 6, tee shot on 9, second on that option par 5 on the back.  "Too much course for the property" is apt.  As a public track, it was pretty good, especially compared to Far Corner or Bradford, etc., but as a private course, it isn't much of a surprise they took 5-6 years to get enough members to go private.  While it may be a good deal for the North Shore, the practice area isn't the greatest, and the course, as an everyday experience, is not fantastic.

My best G-Town story is from 2004, the Mass Open qualifier there, I started Bogey, Eagle (holed out from 115), Birdie, Par, Par, Quad.  My approach on 6, after a chip-out to the correct fairway, carried about 3 yards over the green, hit the downslope, and went OB by about 6 inches.  I actually ended up missing the playoff by one with a 78.  Great.

As for Cape Ann, I played it once, it was a fun little course, at about 2800 yds., par 34.  My highlight was #7, the par 3, which from the back tee in the middle of the field, it plays about 245.  I hit a driver from there to about 8 ft., almost killing the wife of the guy who waved us up, who was standing about 15 feet from the stick for some reason.  An added attraction here is the starter/cantankerous member who heckles everyone on the first tee.  The course is a well-known favorite of John Updike.  I've never had the pleasure of Candlewood, but it is to be included in any Rte. 133 golf tour, along with G-Town, Cape Ann, Far Corner, Old Newbury, and dinner at Woodman's.  Hopefully you get light-greenhead year  

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I've never had the pleasure of Candlewood, but it is to be included in any Rte. 133 golf tour, along with G-Town, Cape Ann, Far Corner, Old Newbury, and dinner at Woodman's.  Hopefully you get light-greenhead year  

Woodman's?  That explains a lot.  You probably think that they invented the fried clam!  Nobody eats there any more; it's too crowded.

Everybody knows that JT Farnham's invented the fried clam, and is the place to eat on Route 133!

Or the Clam Box, at least.

Also on Route 133:  approximately 680 antique stores, including Main Street Antiques (where I bought my wife's engagement ring), Americana (I have filled my house with their refinished antique furniture), and Andrew Spindler Antiques (he's my neighbor).

And Crane Beach Reservation, the best beach in New England.

And the #1 post-beach and post-round destination:  White Farms ice cream stand, with the best frappes* around.

* For those non-New-Englanders, frappe = milkshake.

[ForkaB]

Yes, Martin, you are right re: Farnhams, but that was in the goode olde dayes.  Woodman's is now the Pacific Dunes to Farnham's Bandon Dunes......

[Brad Tufts]

Yeah, I've only eaten at Woodman's like two or three times, all after playing baseball or golf up there someplace.  You would never think that a fried seafood spot could be a "dive" in the sense of a dive bar, but that place fits the bill.  These places do jump the shark when they start to get a reputation....

Back to the matter at hand....I always found it interesting that the North Shore of Boston contained several of the best clubs in the Northeast, but few great public tracks.  Many of the munis and such have classic (Wayne Stiles many of them) roots, but there probably is still room for an upscale public track or two with some strategic design.  The area is pretty crowded and the land is relatively expensive, but there must be somewhere between Melrose, Methuen, and Newburyport to build a great public course.  I had high hopes for the Meadows in Peabody (considering it's only 15 mins from where I grew up in Marblehead), but it turned out to be half benign and half weird.

Private, North Shore

Tier 1 (immortals):  Myopia, Essex, Salem
Tier 1a (new division): Turner Hill and Renaissance?
Tier 2 (solid club courses):  Tedesco, Bass Rocks, Ferncroft, Ipswich, Kernwood, Andover CC
Tier 3 (not bad, but not great either): Ferncroft, Haverhill CC?, Bellevue (9), Indian Ridge
Tier 4 (the rest):  Georgetown, Thompson, North Andover CC (9), Winthrop (9)

Now consider the public courses in the same area according to above, you find Gannon as the only potential tier 2 in my mind, Beverly, Far Corner, Old Salem Greens as decent tier 3s, and the rest tier 4s or worse.  For reference, Red Tail would easily be a 1a, and the Plymouth courses like Waverly and Pinehills would be tier 2s.

In comparison, the Cape and South Shore sport both good public and private courses, as does the area directly surrounding Boston, with the addition (for better or worse) of Granite Links.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Brad, I would swap Bass Rocks and Indian Ridge, but otherwise I agree with your ratings.  Especially for those  I haven't played.

Before I had kids, and before I was a member at Bass Rocks, I can't tell you how much time I spent driving down to Plymouth to play.  I played Waverly Oaks, both Pinehills courses, and Atlantic on a regular basis.

Those trips (90-minute drive down, 5 hours to play, 90 minutes back) prompted my wife to insist that I join Bass Rocks, which is across the street from our house.

Now I don't trek to Plymouth any more, or even out to Red Tail & Shaker Hills.  But it would be nice to have a high-quality public course within driving distance.

And the Meadow at Peabody doesn't cut it.  I also had high hopes, since it was designed by Cornish/Mungeam/Silva.  But I read somewhere that due to the low budget, they couldn't do much blasting or earth-moving.  I know the folks on this site love a minimalist design, but a minmalist design on a godforsaken site like this doesn't do it for me.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Which remind me...  Gloucester, where I live, is in the midst of  a 5-year-long budget crisis.  Somebody has suggested a municipal golf course as a way to raise money.  They point to the success of The Meadow At Peabody as proof that it could succeed.

I think it would be a failure.  Gloucester has one parcel large enough, and that's only large enough for a 9-hole track.  And I don't think there are enough public golfers on Cape Ann to pay for it.

[Dan_Callahan]

I have been surprised at the poor quality of public courses on the north shore. I moved here from Connecticut, which is pretty bad for public golf. However, within 20 minutes I could get to the Ranch and Wintonbury Hills. Within an hour was Oxford Greens, Crumpin Fox and Blackstone National.

Now I've got Red Tail about 35 minutes away and that's about it. And Red Tail has some of the longest rounds of any course in New England. Given the crowds at Red Tail, I'm surprised no one has jumped on the demand for upscale public golf around here. Even heading north to New Hampshire you almost have to get to Owl's Nest before you find anything worth playing. I've heard Canterbury Woods north of Concord is decent but haven't been there yet.

[Brad Tufts]

Martin,

That is interesting that Gloucester is/was considering that.  I would think Gloucester would be one of the least-likely places to support a new golf course in land area at least.  Who knows about potential success as well, considering there are a surprising number of devotees to the Rte. 133 Golf Trail courses.  Do Gloucester residents have any priviliges at BR like town golf at Essex?  By-the-by, I will be reliving my glory from 2004 at BR for the June 14th Mass Am. Qualifier.

The Meadow is a prime example of the change in times/situations between the building of Gannon and today.  Gannon was a WPA project, and they must've blasted the hell out of the place to remove the rock.  Now, with increased regulation and less govt. money over the same type of land we get the Meadow.  It's not horrible, but there are a few too many blind/narrow shots, not to mention bushes and boulders left in the middle of fairways.  There are a few early Raynor-influenced Silva moments on the back nine at TM@P.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I don't think there's any chance for a muni in Gloucester to succeed.  I don't think there are enough golfers on Cape Ann, especially considering that Rockport is semi-public, and Bass Rocks has a pretty large local membership.  And I don't think that many off-Cape golfers will trek up to Gloucester to play, when there are so many options closer to home.  

I have signed up for the Am qualifier too; I had to, since it's my home course.  I am hoping that I can get a few more rounds in this year than last year (one).  And I am hoping that the physical therapy I have been doing on my back will help.

I tried to sign up for the Open qualifer at Salem, since I've never played there.  Unfortunately, my handicap is now too high.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Brad, when you played The Meadow at Peabody, where did you hit your tee shot?  I have never been so baffled on a tee in my life.

I wish I had a photo to share with those who have not played it.  And their web site links are down, so there's not even a drawing to share.

As I recall, the options are:

1) Hit a 200-yard shot short of the hazard/rocky outcropping, then hit your 220-yard approach shot over it.
2) Hit a 315-yard shot over the hazard, then wedge in.
3) Hit a 250-yard shot to the 9th fairway, then play from there.

After the first time I played there (and hit my tee shot into the rocks), I played down the 9th fairway.

[Brad Tufts]

Dan,

As for Southern NH, Portsmouth CC is a very good course, although restricted on weekends because it's semi-private.  It's a wide-open RTJ course with a few bayfront holes.  I played Atkinson this past fall, but it was very narrow, ridiculously in a couple places.  I wouldn't go out of my way to see it again.  Windham (exit 3 on NH) is not bad as well, but even it has a couple abortive holes.  I have heard that Campbell's Scottish Highlands is ok, if not a bit short.  Passaconaway and Amherst are also in the not bad, not great category I've been told.  I can vouch for the quality of Canterbury Woods though, it was a very pleasant surprise.

Martin,

Rockport is an odd little place, I detoured there one day after work at Myopia after seeing pics of that huge rock, and unfortunately that was the only semi-interesting hole.  It apparently does have a long history though.  With the size and population of Cape Ann, it's a wonder courses like CA, Candlewood, and New Meadows...that is to say the less than full length courses have survived all these years.  We may just have to do a home-and-home one of the weekends pre-qualifier, if your back is up to it.  

[Brad Tufts]

Do you mean the 18th?

I think in two plays I hit a 275-yd bomb right into the bush/rocks in the center of the fairway, thought that was complete bull, and dropped short of it, and the second time, I hit it way left into the tenth fairway.  It's open down there with an ok angle, as long as you don't get directly behind one of the 5 or 6 single trees down there.

#2 also has a feature like that, with crap in the center of the fairway.  You have to go a) over, 240+ yd carry b) to the right with an iron or fairway wood c) left of the bush to a narrow fairway about 20 feet wide d) short, leaving 150-160 yards, blind, over said bush.  Very weird.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Yes, I meant the 18th.  And of course I played my tee shot into the 10th fairway, not the 9th, which would be quite a bomb.

My favorite hole is #4.  My first time there, my tee thoughts were, "where in the world is the green for this hole?  It can't possibly be the one on top of that mountain there; that's at least a half mile away!"

That turns out to be an optical illusion; the hole plays pretty short.  But that's the most-uphill second shot I have ever had.

Then there's #11, the long uphill par 5.  I once hit a great tee shot up the right side of the fairway, and it landed on one of the bare rocks.  Fortunately, it bounded forward, and I had a medium iron in.  I stuck it on the green, and had a 15-footer for eagle.

Which I three-putted, because the grounds crew was aerating and sanding the greens in the middle of a tournament.

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