Estates of Lawsonia

[Dan Moore]

Langford and Moreau's gem The Links at Lawsonia is located on a 1,000 acre property which is part of the Green Lake Conference Center.  Originally built as part of a resort vacation complex in 1929-30, the resort failed with the onset of the depression.  The GLCC was purchased by the American Baptist Assembly in 1944-45 and is used as a spiritual retreat and training center for church leaders.  

The Conference Center has decided to sell 140 acres of its property for a real estate development called Estates of Lawsonia.  Approximately 180 homes will be built including many that front the Links little sister, Joe Lee and Rocky Rocquemore's Woodlands Course.  Homes will range in price from $350,000 to $2.0 million for a lakefront home.  Lots are availble starting at $95,000 to over a $1.0 mil. look to be about 20,000 to 25,000 sq. ft. each.  

The developer has put together a very nice and informative website with maps of the lot sites and other information.  

www.estatesoflawsonia.com

The development appears to require the alteration of two holes on the Woodlands Course #s5 and 6.  The loss of the 5th green site for a lakefront home is unfortunate as that was the only green on the course located near the Lake.  

www.lawsonia.com

For fans of the Links Course the good news is the development will not affect the Links Course in any meaningful way.  Only 6 homes will be located on the Links Course at the very north end of the back nine along the 17th fairway and near the new back tee on 18.  it is possible the new 18th tee that added 50-60 yds will now be located in someone's backyard, but beyond that the course will not be affected.  That is extremely good news.  

Here is a view looking north from the 18th green.  The homesites on the Links will be located along the treeline to the north starting to the left near the blue building and extending to the middle of the photo to where the 17th tee is located.  The new 18th tee is located just to the right of the blue building looks like it will be gone.  

[Rick Shefchik]

Lucky folks, those who will be building near this gem.

The Links course already has a house right up against the third hole, near the green. Of course, as I recall it was a white clapboard farmhouse that was probably 80 years old or more, but I'll bet the six new houses won't be that close.

[Dan Moore]

Here is the house Rick is talking about behind #3 green.

[Doug Ralston]

This shows why I really do not quite 'fit in' at this site. I look at the pix for Links and Woodlands, and I want to play Woodlands really bad! Wierd, huh?

You REALLY don't think a mountain, lake, and forest course could be a great course?

Doug

[ed_getka]

Doug,
  It is okay to want to play the Woodlands course. They have 12-step programs for that sort of thing.
   Believe me, if you played Lawsonia Links, I think you would prefer it over the Woodlands. Of course, I could be wrong, in which case there is no hope for you.

Dan,
   Thanks for the link. That is beautiful country up there. I look forward to my next visit.

[Paul Payne]

Doug,

Of all the photos I've seen of Lawsonia possibly only half or fewer can really do it justice. I had seen pictures before I played there and if I not had other advice I probably would have passed. Ed is correct, you really have to go play the course. Once you do, chances are you will be caught in it's spell.

[PThomas]

This shows why I really do not quite 'fit in' at this site. I look at the pix for Links and Woodlands, and I want to play Woodlands really bad! Wierd, huh?

You REALLY don't think a mountain, lake, and forest course could be a great course?

Doug

Doug - I played the Links for the first time last year...driving up there , I expected to not have the course live up to all the hype I've heard and read over the years, as the praise for it is so great

I'm glad to report , however, that the praise is well-justifed...the Links is a terrific layout that I truly  look forward to playing again!

[RJ_Daley]

Doug, I've had so many golfers from this area that I know react in the same way.  Many a good player in WI, when it is proposed to them, "let's go to Lawsonia for a day trip and play there", want to play the woodlands course, and expect to as their first choice.  They think the forested cooler-shadier, views of the lake course is their ideal of a CCFAD or resort setting.  Most of them have a moron's architectural I.Q., IMHO.  Particularly, those that hold that view and have actually played both.  I can somewhat understand the preference if choosing only from photos.  But, once you've played both, well I'm just not ever going to respect a golfer's architectural accumen if they prefer the woodlands.  

And, that is with the caveat that if the woodlands was a stand-alone course, I would go there to play, if it is reasonably priced.  

I am at the point where I feel like it might be more in 'our' own selfish best interest if those that might taut the woodlands course as better than the links course, not be in any way challenged in their thinking.  The fewer folks that choose to play the links over the woodlands, leaves more availability, and hopefully lower pricing that is more favorable to those that really "get it".

[RJ_Daley]

And, here is another socio-economic, rant!  

Why is this new age the time to finally develop those lots? What is it about this current atmosphere in society that is causing greed to acquire more and more $$$.  Even the Baptist Assembly (who have had this marvelous, understated, tastefully organized and unique facility, used for retreats and such) now feel it is incumbent upon them to develop the homesites, for what would be very wealthy pricing in these parts.  They survived until now.  Won't they survive if they leave it as it is?

I remember going to Lawsonia when I first renewed my interest in golf in the mid 80s, and they still had the old wooden pro shop, with a sandwich counter and no alcohol.  They had just started the new (3rd) nine by Rocky Roqulemore and Joe Lee.  I remember going there as a youngster and seeing the summer Baptists actually assembled for retreats, occupying the overnight barracks.  The not-for-profit religious organization seemed to get along fine then.  When you went to Lawsonia in the 50s and 60s, you actually felt a presents of an assembly where golf wasn't the most important thing.  As a then catholic, one felt a respect that you were a guest in another's home, and acted with a sort of underlying temperance, where you consciously made and effort not to swear, and the absence of a beer was a fully accepted concept not to be whined about.

If everything is developed in these times to the maximum, highest most profitable use, then after that, WHAT IS LEFT! ?  We'll all just be golfing drones, creeping along on tighened fairways, in canyons of housing, miserable and highly marketed targets, not in touch with wide open spaces, beyond those narrowed fairways.  We will become so narrow minded that we will think a narrowed fairway contained within a housing development IS the wide open range.  Where does it end?

[Paul Payne]

RJ,

I hear ya'. Hopefully they will use some taste and discretion in their placement of the houses and stay away from the links course. At least if there are homes on the Woodlands they can keep a buffer of trees between the homes and the course.

We have a course called The Wilds south of Minneapolis which used to be a  decent course, however now I simply will not play. It is a good course not a spectacular course but they have lined many of the fairways with houses so tightly packed you get the sense you are playing down a hallway. Nothing I can think of can more ruin the look an architect intended than rows of housing. Maybe that is not true for all however the only courses I have found with developments on them that I enjoy playing are where they have set the homes back from the course and spaced them out so they are not as obtrusive.

BTW, my guess is that the Baptists need/want money.

[RJ_Daley]

Paul, I have no idea what the economic situation of the Assembly is.  But, I would observe that need and want are two different things.  If it is need - due to financial distress, yes, I understand that.  If it is a want - to just have more affluence or cash on hand, I think that is symptomatic of attitudes at this time.  

My dear old Wild Horse will eventually be encased on its periphery by distracting roof lines.  Folks say it won't effect the actual play of the course, so long as they don't narrow fairways.  But, it is a psychological wall that is ever present, IMHO.

[Dan Moore]

The Conference Center states the profits from the sale of the property will be used to underwrite a mentorship training program for preachers from smaller churches who do not have the resources to attend their seminars.  

Again, there will only be 6 lots built on the Links Course which probably had less to do with not wanting to compromise the Links than the fact there is little room inside the course or an open perimeter on which to build.  

Doug, the funny thing is the Woodlands probably does get more rounds than the Links.  Its treelined, goes down to the Lake (or at least used to), has a quarry hole and a cliff hole that are pretty nice.  Its fun to play.  It is also 3-4 strokes easier then the Links.  I think the Links with its blind shots, cavernous bunkers and huge undulating greens intimidates some people.  Its so different than what golfers usually see I don't think the average golfer understands what they are playing.  

Doug, all I can say is go there for 3 days, play each course at least twice, rent a pontoon boat and cruise the Lake; you'll have a great time and when you get home you will understand why the Links course is so much better.  

Paul, I have to agree the Links is hard to photograph.  Its one of those courses that has scale, an expansiveness that fits the nature of the course. Its doesn't have that photogenic signature hole, it just has 18 extremely good holes.  

Here are two that capture some of the scale.

#6


#11

[RJ_Daley]

11...

[Dan Moore]

11 of course.  You can see the tree line where the 6 lots on the Links will be located starting with the blue building and going to the right at the top of the course.  They should provide nice views looking down the entire back nine.  

[Doug Ralston]

First an admission: I am not a great golfer, and beauty stirs me more than a great golf challenge [though I do enjoy trying those]. So naturally, having played neither course at Lawsonia, I would be attacted to the Woodlands 1st. I really am certain that the Links offers the greater golf challenge, as you say.

But all that aside, a serious question: Is it not possible for an architect to make a mountain, lake, and forest property into a truly challenging, as well as serenely beautiful, supercourse? Or are there just too many variables introduced in this for imaginations to deal with productively?

I ask because I do not yet see one of this nature that anyone here admits to. Yet I have played some that 'I' think could qualify.

To be certain, I would love to play many of the great St Andrews types, Sand Hills types, Spyglass types etc [and I have seen pix of Lakota Canyon that make me DEAD cert to love that!]. But I still think 'mountain, lake, and forest' types could also be great to you, given a slightly more open mind and less reactionary certainty of what golf 'should be'.

Oops, if that sounds political, it is not intended thus. Ran must not spank ...........

Doug

[RJ_Daley]

I doubt if you'd get too many people to be negative about Banff.  I think it has all the mountains, forest, lakes or water you are fond of...

I think there are a multitude of mountain, lakes, forest courses that are every bit held in very high esteem by traditionalists who like open, prairie courses like Lawsonia.

[Andy Troeger]

Banff's a good one, Homestead--Cascades was the first to come to mind for me.

[Paul Payne]

I'm back again.

Dan nice photos, thanks. I think the second one of number eleven gives a person an idea of what some of the holes are like. Those sharp edges can look awfully scary in person.

Doug,

I for one would never say a mountain or forest property could not produce a great course. My favorite case in point lately would be Greywalls in my old hometown of Marquette MI. It is getting some really good press already and is barely two years old. I think you would like it if you saw it. I never would have thought they could build a course on that property but it is terriffic!!!

[Doug Ralston]

Paul;

What about the even more vertical Timberstone, so 70 miles or so west? Did Matthews do well?

Doug

[Dan Moore]

I noticed two events being promoted on Lawsonia's website.  

Anybody know anything about the Heritage Center?  


May 21
Golf Wisconsin Heritage Center Fund Raiser


August 5
Golf Course Restoration & Preservation fund raiser.  This is a fund raiser for special equipment for the golf courses.