From Patrick Mucci:
One look at the physical properties of both holes, their configuration and the juxtaposition of the features tells me that the don't play remarkably similar.
And he continues to argue this having never played one of the holes in question, directly disagreeing about the play of one hole with two people who have played it.
I'd say that's amazing, but then I know who we're dealing with. It's now become rather sad and pathetic.
Patrick:
Did you read the posts after mine? The further confirming evidence from locals?
Sigh.... ok, let's go over this again. I refuse to allow your distortions and mischaracterizations.
1. I know very well where 16CPC sits; I have played the hole five times. I continue to maintain my position. You refute this based on what? You have zero knowledge of the DV hole. I do. I suppose you just choose to disbelieve me, again.
2. If all golfers were as smart as you are playing the game, more would play it as well as you. But I'd also point you to Kalen's posts as to why the DV hole is played as it is in terms of a layup.
3. Re the wind, you might have consulted a map, and seen that DV is pretty close to other bodies of water. But that being said, wind doesn't stick to bodies of water here... You might want to drive along I-580 sometime out here and notice the multitudes of giant windmills. In any case, I gather you finally grant that perhaps I was telling the truth and nothing more re this. Gee, thanks. It only took two other corraborators.
4. The rules situation at CPC is a weird one, discussed in here before. I don't think you could call the ocean casual water - look up the definition of that and you'll see why. Bt they do make it quite clear in signs and I believe on the scorecard that the ocean is to be treated as part of the course. So no need to cite rules to me, thank you very much. I know the rules; although from your prior posts I gave you a HUGE benefit of the doubt that you did so. CPC is just an odd situation in how they do this, but the bottom line remains that it is what it is, and the two holes thus play exactly the same in terms of shots missed to the left. It's odd to me that someone who's played CPC would NOT know this... it's a very unique thing and very "publicized"... very hard to miss... You HAVE played CPC, right?
There we have it. We also have Kalen's posts confirming that the play is similar in the two golf holes. We have Kalen and Kevin Reilly confirming the wind. I gather that's not enough?
As for your contention that the two layups have a "huge" difference is laughable. Yes, one does have to cross water no matter what at CPC; whereas at DV, one does have available a 70 yard bunt that no one ever uses and leaves 130 more yards over water. If that's a huge difference in your world than God help you. The fact remains that ON BOTH HOLES, for the good player, it's damn near always just a straight shot at the green; the lesser player picks his poison to the left, deciding how far he wants to hit the ball and how close he wants to get to the green. I granted long ago it's a difference that no matter what one does at CPC the shot must cross water; I just don't see that as significant given one crosses water damn near all the time at DV anyway. But yes, if that is a significant difference to you, you are welcome to it.
In any case, I've grown weary of arguing these details and correcting you time after time after time. It's eminently clear you'll believe only what you want to believe no matter what anyone says, basing it on photos... something you have chided others for countless times in the past.
You remain quite the piece of work.
So screw it.
You tell me then, if I have distorted your previous overall position. Here's how I understand that: you grudgingly accept that beauty factors into the golf equation, but only on a very tangential level, falling way way way after matters directly effecting "play" of a golf hole - and one way or the other, it stops at the edge of the golf course - that is, nothing beyond the edge of the course has any bearing whatsoever on anything.
Is that incorrect?
I believe this exercise with these two golf holes reveals a major weakness in your position. But I'd never expect you to accept it.
I might expect some benefit of the doubt and acceptance from you that perhaps I know our area better than you do... but I guess I'm learning to not even expect that.
TH