Riviera Photos

[rjsimper]

Having lived in the LA area for my entire life (minus college) getting my first chance to play Riviera yesterday was a treat that I'd looked forward to for as long as I can remember.

With the LA Open in a couple of weeks, the course is in very good shape, particularly the greens and fairways.  We've hit a bit of a cold snap, so the rough was more benign than it should and likely will be.

I thought I would post a couple of photos from the day - my host (a non-GCA member) had a lot of interesting tales to tell about the course and the architecture, and expressed his distaste for how the 8th was re-done, even when the caddie informed us that the left fairway was the easier/safer play.

Based on photos, I wasn't sure how it would look actually standing on the tee.  Really, it's nearly a no brainer unless the only shot you can hit is a 240+ yard fade or intend to play it as a 3 shot hole.

As many others are, I was impressed by the compact routing and the fact that you finish the round and look back down on the course from the clubhouse thinking "Yeah, I guess there really is 7000+ yards of golf down there".

Highlights for me were the 4th hole, which is possibly the best long par 3 I've played.  I'd love to get another shot at playing it since the shot I chose from the tee was entirely the wrong play.  I can, however, see how the kikuyu has compromised the hole's playability.

The 5th hole - why doesn't the 5th get more press?  Playing that approach shot was a thrill, and it seems that there might be an added bonus for laying back a bit to take advantage of the Kikuyu slope with a little less loft coming in.

Ran's writeup talks about how Thomas got the slopes right on the 6th green to make the bunker work.  I figured to myself "how hard can this be?" - After standing there and seeing exactly what went in to making that green, I stand corrected.  It's a piece of genius.

The enlarged 9th green seems a bit big for the setting, especially when contrasted with the nearby 18th.

I also thought the fact that the 9s were intertwined with one another so nicely giving the course (despite the fact that the 9s return to the clubhouse) a continuity that I don't think any other course I've played matches.

Overall, I loved the place - it's worthy of the high praise it receives.  Like everyone else, I can agree that the Kikuyu compromises some of the intended playability, but the course is just way too good to be held down by that detail alone.

Needless to say, whenever my next shot at Riviera comes, I won't be able to sleep well the night before.  

On to the eye candy-

Opening tee shot


Hole 5 - Par 4 - 130 yards to the green


Hole 5 from behind the green


Hole 6 (are those heat lamps or growing lamps?)


Hole 6 - Look at the severity of the slope above the bunker, and this photo doesn't even do it justice.  It's STEEP!


Hole 6 from above the bunker


Hole 8 Tee - Notice how the tee boxes aim you right between the fairways, which makes the only challenge of going right your alignment.


Hole 8 from the end of the right fairway


Hole 9 tee


Hole 10 (not that dozens of this same photo haven't been shared before...)


Hole 10 Green, showing undoubtedly the easiest pin on the green


18 Tee - Just at the short palm tree with a little fade...


18 Fairway - I probably had 15 more yards of fairway to the right of my ball, and I am blocked out unless I can hit a left to right shot (to a green sloping left to right)


18 from the clubhouse - truly a great finishing hole

[Bill_McBride]

Ryan, I've never played Riviera and have a couple of questions based on your photos:

1.   Why would anyone ever take the left fairway at #8?  I've heard it's not really an option, but it seems even more so from your photo's angle.

2.   Is that entire left slope by the 18th green kikuyu?  That would certainly negate what looks like the best play there, a full running shot at the left side.  Although the current PGA players are hitting mid and short irons into 18, didn't Elkington hit 3-wood onto the green to make birdie and win the PGA a few years ago?

3.   From the first photo, the tee shot at #1, what are the two white markers at the front of the fairway?  They look like the forward tees for the giant who plays there!

[Kevin_Reilly]

Although the current PGA players are hitting mid and short irons into 18, didn't Elkington hit 3-wood onto the green to make birdie and win the PGA a few years ago?

I remember Robert Allenby hit an amazing 3 wood to the green in the playoff of the Nissan Open about 5 yrs ago...weather was poor that day.

[Bill_McBride]

Although the current PGA players are hitting mid and short irons into 18, didn't Elkington hit 3-wood onto the green to make birdie and win the PGA a few years ago?

I remember Robert Allenby hit an amazing 3 wood to the green in the playoff of the Nissan Open about 5 yrs ago...weather was poor that day.

I knew it was one of those guys from Down Under!  

[rjsimper]

Bill-

I am far from an expert on the course, having played it just this once, but to answer your questions as best as I can:

1 - A player who can't make a 100 yard carry and intends to play it as a 3 shot hole would be better served playing left.  It sets up well for a 150 yard tee shot, a 140 yard shot down the fairway, and a wedge to the green.  Any player capable of more than this would simply play it down the right.  As you can see in my second photo of 8, there is about 100 yards of barranca to carry to the turtle-backed green.  

2 - Yes it is.  I hit 7i into the green and being scared of the Eucalyptus, pulled it probably 4 yards left of the green.  The ball did not bounce.  My host yelled "BOUNCE OFF" when the ball was flying, which tells me that it's not unheard of...though perhaps he was just pulling for it to get off the hill but not quite to the green.

3 - CARTS GO LEFT HERE

I don't recall the Allenby shot, but I do recall Shigeki Maruyama in 2004 (or 05) hitting into the right rough off the tee, then carving a 5 wood around the trees to 3 feet to this very same pin.

[Steve Burrows]

As far as the 8th hole goes:

It's interesting that though only a few PGA pros take the left-hand route to the green during the tournament, a healthy percentage of the membership actually do choose the left side.  I think this is probably a function of the right side having just been reclaimed recently.  The membership, however, through years of playing to the left before the renovation, have simply stuck with what they know.

[Kalen Braley]

Its my understanding that the 8th hole when designed didn't have all those trees that divide the two fairways. So going left really was an option to consider.

But you're right with the bunker to the left, the tree trouble and needing to fit a fade in there, doesn't seem to make much sense to even try going that way.

[rjsimper]

Even with the trees removed, it's still a dodgy option due to the fact that the fairway is situated at an oblique angle to the line of flight.

The proper tee, as I understand it, is actually well to the left of the current tee, meaning you either hit right or left, while in the current configuration it's a choice between hitting straight or hitting WAY left.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Hole 10 (not that dozens of this same photo haven't been shared before...)

Actually it is only the 2nd picture of this hole (modified) ever posted.
I still can't believe this is real.....

[David Stamm]

Thanks for the photos Ryan. Great stuff!!

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't believe Ryan hit 7i into 18.  That pin on 10 is exactly where I hit my drive.  I hit the same drive on 18 and had 300 in for a 3 wood, 3 wood, 5 iron, wedge, tap in 6.

If you want to learn about Riviera you need to pick up Shackleford's book.  It is the best designed course in the country. (as said by Ben Crenshaw)

[Brian Noser]

the time I saw the Nissan Open Tiger went left good enough for me to go left...

PS. John, Ryan is Sneaky Long...

[John Kavanaugh]

I've played with Ryan.  The day I played it was a monster wind, how else do you think I drove 10 with a bunt fade that rolled a good 70 yds.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ryan,
  Yes-those are heat lamps, or grow lamps if you will. It is my understanding that because of all the trees around that greens site that cannot be removed, this aides the green in the winter time to help the grass grow and recover from wear.


The bunkers are RUINED.....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[John Kavanaugh]

Anthony,

From studying the pictures I am confident in saying that the current bunkers are better than the original Thomas.

[Steve Burrows]

Anthony Nysse wrote:

"Ryan,
  Yes-those are heat lamps, or grow lamps if you will. It is my understanding that because of all the trees around that greens site that cannot be removed, this aides the green in the winter time to help the grass grow and recover from wear."

I will add to this that it is not solely the trees that prevent light from falling onto the green.  More specifically, it is the orientation of the winter sun (to the south) in concert with the height of the canyon wall behind the green that blocks the suns rays, keeping the green in the dark until about noon, or thereabouts, at this time of year.  However, even during the summer, the lamps stay out there to help out the green, which is also at the lowest, and, as it turns out, coldest, part of the property.  They are only taken out for the week of the tournament.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Steve,
 We struggle with sun angels this time of year also.  We've removed trees just for winter time sunlight and we've also removed trees for summer time sunlight.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Jeff Doerr]

Hole 10 (not that dozens of this same photo haven't been shared before...)

Actually it is only the 2nd picture of this hole (modified) ever posted.
I still can't believe this is real.....

Ryan,

I love the flat/player's view. The prime layup must feel every bit like hitting to an island green - and yet natural feeling.

Thanks!

[Lynn_Shackelford]

No question John, those Fazio bunkers pictured are well done.  Are they from a course in Florida?
Yes, you succeeded in eliciting a comment on the Fazio bunkers.  I think the success lies in his one time lengthy stay of 45 minutes.

[John Kavanaugh]

Lynn,

Funny thing...I was surprised to see how shaggy the original bunkers were when the course was opened.  I personally like the tighter look that came to be some time after.  I wish every one was as lucky as me to have both played the course and own a copy of the your son's book.  It is just my opinion based on taste that the bunkers now are better than opening day.

I had a discussion just last night about how I prefer visiting my daughter in LA over seeing my parents in Florida partly because the golf in LA is so much better.  And Vero Beach ain't bad.  I just don't see any courses in Florida having bunkers placed and or built as nice as the existining ones now at Riviera.

[John Kavanaugh]

The bunkers are RUINED.....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Tony,

Could you explain why and how you came to the above conclusion.

[wsmorrison]

I've never been to LA so I readily admit to not knowing the course at all except in photographs.  I recognized pictures can be deceiving, but....here are my criticisms:

The fairway on the first hole looks terrible.  I imagine at one point there had to be a bit of flow to the contour lines.  Obviously it has shrunk a great deal today, but does it have to be a perfect rectangle?  

It sure does look like the left fairway on 8 is just a vestige of the temptation that once existed.  I don't have Geoff's book but it had to offer a better risk reward than today.  Today's risk reward equation looks to be all risk and no reward.

I had never seen a ground shot like the hole 10 photograph.  It looks great, except for the bunkering; it looks too contrived and the cart path cutting across the line of play.  What's that all about?  Can't Californians walk?  What about all those environmentalists?  John likes the bunkers and I'm sure many others do as well or more likely could care less.

The 18th green looks like it must have lost some area along the right side.  The line looks too straight and it looks like it retreated from the slope which is a nice feature.  Too bad the cart path is so close that the green was probably allowed to shrink away from.

 

[Adam Clayman]

Wayne, I recently saw an old SWWOG and the first fairway was a rectangle then. With the OB left and the tress right, the str8 lines are a juxtaposition from nature, yes. But, it does seem to make the golfer feel a bit uncomfortable for that reason.

One of the great shots in the SWWOG was a low running three iron to the second green. It actually bounced off the hill and rolled to the fringe. I believe it was Suchak who hit it. The second doesn't get much air time but it's a beast of hole. As one sits near the clubhouse, taking in all that is Riviera, the second is in the foreground of watching the tenth. The hole gets in the mind of the player and he doesn't even know it until he has to approach it.

I wouldn't expect the Kikuyu to spring to life for this months tour stop. Once it's dormant it's dormant. A much preferred surface to non-dormant KK. I'd love to see the greenskeeper attempt to low mow the hillsides that come into play on 2, 4 and 18.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wayne,

I didn't want to hurt Ryan's feelings but those pictures are terrible.  I agree that eight could have been done better but I'm not sure that most people understand that not that long ago there was no right option on eight.  I believe that Fazio recaptured it and could have done a better job by making it more penal for the members.  The original was almost an exact mirror image of The Gambler in Myrtle Beach with a tiny right side landing area.  Fazio simply made it too large.  This was a first good step and may very well improve over time with minimal work.

I say all this about the area being too large despite the fact that I hit my drive up the hill towards the houses.  I will be aiming left if I ever get another chance.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wayne, I recently saw an old SWWOG and the first fairway was a rectangle then. With the OB left and the tress right, the str8 lines are a juxtaposition from nature, yes. But, it does seem to make the golfer feel a bit uncomfortable for that reason.

One of the great shots in the SWWOG was a low running three iron to the second green. It actually bounced off the hill and rolled to the fringe. I believe it was Suchak who hit it. The second doesn't get much air time but it's a beast of hole. As one sits near the clubhouse, taking in all that is Riviera, the second is in the foreground of watching the tenth. The hole gets in the mind of the player and he doesn't even know it until he has to approach it.

I wouldn't expect the Kikuyu to spring to life for this months tour stop. Once it's dormant it's dormant. A much preferred surface to non-dormant KK. I'd love to see the greenskeeper attempt to low mow the hillsides that come into play on 2, 4 and 18.

Adam,

I don't think the picture above is from the tournament tee anyway that is over by the practice green.  It really is a thrilling tee shot and the thought of hitting the ball OB weighs heavy on your mind with the thought of the dining room watch you reload.  The second hole is without question a monster that must not play much shorter than the par 5 first.

I thought the dormant KK was one of the finest surfaces I have ever played.  I found it to run much better than zoysia under any conditions.

I still can't get over the many myths that surround Riviera.  I find it all to be very sad for a course that is kind enough to continue to host a regular PGA tournament.  I wish more great courses were so generous.