Golfweek Snubs 9-Hole Course

[Tom Huckaby]

So I'm back on trial, John?  It was nice to have a layoff for a few days.

As for the rest, I shall just say "whatever."  Did you even bother to read the thread?

I believe there's one idiot in this thread, and it's not me.

TH

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

John,

Erik de Lambert, who ran the course for 25 years, made the change to the first green. I tried to contact him during research for To the Nines, but he never returned my calls. The two prevailing theories on the green relocation are 1) drainage issues; 2) located too close to the second green.

What has me baffled is that while Lambert ran the course he was good friends with architect Robert Muir Graves who often played there. De Lambert redesigned the green without consulting with Graves.

Anthony

[Kevin_Reilly]

John,

Erik de Lambert, who ran the course for 25 years, made the change to the first green. I tried to contact him during research for To the Nines, but he never returned my calls. The two prevailing theories on the green relocation are 1) drainage issues; 2) located too close to the second green.

I've heard those two (you meant the second tee), but also heard it was to reduce the traffic on the original green.

[John Kavanaugh]

So I'm back on trial, John?  It was nice to have a layoff for a few days.

As for the rest, I shall just say "whatever."  Did you even bother to read the thread?

I believe there's one idiot in this thread, and it's not me.

TH

Huck,

You imply that 9 holes is half a course...that is idiocy.  We have two sets of tees for 18 different holes with different angles and lengths.  We have a full membership, a regular clubhouse and everything else an 18 hole course has.  The only thing that is missing in nine greens.  It is at worst three quarters a course.

The thing that is the most stupid is when you say that people don't post nine hole scores.  Of course they don't because they play 18 just like you do.

note: back at a land comp, can't type that fast on blackberry.

[Kalen Braley]

What it comes down to is an adventure.

The kind I prefer are the tricky approaches to the greens, 20 MPH wind, and rolling greens.

Not the type where I'm worried about my car getting broken into, or being approached by strangers, or getting mugged for that matter.  When there are so many other options, why go to a place where you can never really truly relax and enjoy your round?

[Tom Huckaby]

John:

Where did I state, or imply, that ALL nine-hole courses were half a course?

I just do believe that most golfers think of them that way IN GENERAL.  Damn near everyone in the SF Bay area does, likely because we have so few relative to so many 18-holers.  I know two members of Saratoga CC - a pretty darn fine course, 9 holes - and even they play a lot of their golf elsewhere rather than playing there own course twice.  They do indeed think of their own club as fun, but half a course.

But OF COURSE fine 9-hole courses exist elsewhere, with members proud of them and playing them twice from two sets of tees or whatever.

But doesn't the fact you have to create two sets of tees rather prove my point?  If 9holes is all one needs, why the need for different tees?

Now regarding this:


The thing that is the most stupid is when you say that people don't post nine hole scores.  Of course they don't because they play 18 just like you do.


A.  I only meant that lots of people who only play 9 holes don't post it, and this occurs for a lot of reasons... they hit practice shots, etc. - they just plain don't consider it real golf.

B. I play only 9 holes all the time.  I post when I play the ball out with only one ball - ie treat it as real golf - and it's played at a regulation length course.  That doesn't happen often.

Your idiocy remains intact.  Mine is removed.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

People who play at 9 hole courses don't play any fewer 18 hole rounds than people who play at 36 hole courses.

[John Keenan]

Anthony

On De Lambert I would guess the word eccentric would well apply to him. A true individual who marched to his own drum. Not asking Graves would fit in. Why should he.

I could well see the drainage issue as it is the base of a hill. Not as clear on the view of too close to 2.

All in all a very tough green to hit and hold


Tom H

We disagreed over 9 versus 18 but now way would that make you an idiot. Rather it makes you a person with a different opinion. There is no corrector proper answer or view on these things it is a matter of taste. Many roads to Dublin

[Tom Huckaby]

People who play at 9 hole courses don't play any fewer 18 hole rounds than people who play at 36 hole courses.

OK, if you say so.  Not that that changes anything one iota, but I believe this.

[Tom Huckaby]

Anthony
Tom H

We disagreed over 9 versus 18 but now way would that make you an idiot. Rather it makes you a person with a different opinion. There is no corrector proper answer or view on these things it is a matter of taste. Many roads to Dublin

John Keenan - of course you know this and I know this, but consider the source.  I suppose I ought to do just that.  Thank you very much for the reminder.  Just do remember I fully enjoy 9-hole courses...

[John Keenan]

I fully understand just wanted to let you know

[John Kavanaugh]

I just continue to believe that as things stand today, well... we've got a long way to go.  People only care about 9-hole courses as curiousities, and only play them if they don't have a more suitable 18-hole choice.

TH

The above is ignorant.  People who sterotype have more than just an opinion, they have a screw loose.

[Tom Huckaby]

Idiot from Indiana:

That was meant to be a generality, and I stand by it.  It certainly can be applied to most golfers here in the SF Bay Area, for reasons already stated.  I never intended it to apply to every golfer either here or anywhere else.

You are right though that it's not good to stereotype.  But given your many times doing just that in here, this is rather the pot calling the kettle black, no?

Of course I know what you're going to say - don't bother - you already know you have a screw loose.

BTW, do you deny that even in your world, most golfers wouldn't PREFER an 18-hole course and only play the 9-holer because that's all that's available to them?  And note the word "most", not "all."

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

And in terms of your quest Anthony, well it would seem quixotic to me.  Your book is cool for sure.... I just never thought of it as part of a quest for acceptance for 9-hole golf... it seemed like a celebration of the odd to me.  See, the vast majority of golfers will never consider 9-hole courses "real" courses, as great as some of them may be.  Golf does remain an 18-hole sport, for better or worse.

TH

There is enough lumber here to build a stupid ark and have Huck and his pretentious 18 hole buds load up two by two.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ask 100 golfers to name their favorite courses and 99 will do so without naming a 9-hole course; and it's just because they don't think of them as "courses" at all.  That's what I mean by "odd."  These courses are the weird outliers of the golf world.  That doesn't make them bad, that doesn't deny that some are great fun, that doesn't deny that some exhibit wonders of design; it's just going to be a VERY difficult road for you to hoe if you expect many golfers to accept them as real golf courses.


TH

Is there no end..

[Tom Huckaby]

All right, you win.  It's been a long time since I've been called stupid, ignorant and an idiot all in 15 minutes.  Check that - my 11 year old daughter does it regularly.  I always figured you had about the same emotional state as her, John.

I stand by every word I say, btw.  If you sincerely believe that the majority of golfers prefer 9-hole courses, then perhaps you ought to look in the mirror for ignorance.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

That's very cool.  But I still stand by my take here.  Most golfers don't consider them real courses... they are half a course... and they take what they can get in Maine and Alaska, wishing they had full courses.


TH

I think it is starting to rain..

[Tom Huckaby]

Ask 100 golfers to name their favorite courses and 99 will do so without naming a 9-hole course; and it's just because they don't think of them as "courses" at all.  That's what I mean by "odd."  These courses are the weird outliers of the golf world.  That doesn't make them bad, that doesn't deny that some are great fun, that doesn't deny that some exhibit wonders of design; it's just going to be a VERY difficult road for you to hoe if you expect many golfers to accept them as real golf courses.


TH

Is there no end..

Do you deny that?

I will admit the numbers are exaggerated.  But the main point is very correct.

Is there no end to my trial?

[Tom Huckaby]

That's very cool.  But I still stand by my take here.  Most golfers don't consider them real courses... they are half a course... and they take what they can get in Maine and Alaska, wishing they had full courses.


TH

I think it is starting to rain..

Again, I stand by every word.

If it's raining, it's God crying for your emotional well-being.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm with you on this one Tom,

Playing 18 on the weekend is what I always seek out first.  If I can't get something nailed down, then I head out to the 9 holers, but its usually the last resort.

Only exception to this is trying to sneak out after work when you only have a couple of hours.  I think many in here are missing Toms premise which is 18 is the standard to play, fewer people play the 9 holers.  Thats it.

[John Kavanaugh]

All right, you win.  It's been a long time since I've been called stupid, ignorant and an idiot all in 15 minutes.  Check that - my 11 year old daughter does it regularly.  I always figured you had about the same emotional state as her, John.

I stand by every word I say, btw.  If you sincerely believe that the majority of golfers prefer 9-hole courses, then perhaps you ought to look in the mirror for ignorance.

TH

I have spent 39 years playing the same nine hole course.  It is a real course that has hosted real golfers, even Master's champions, and you expect me to let it ride when you discount a major part of my life because it seems "wierd" to you.  When you learned that 29% of the nations courses are nine holers you could have either apologized or shut the hell up.  You brought this on yourself.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen:

Well if you're with me, then in Kavanaugh's world, you are

an idiot
ignorant
stupid
pretentious
and you provide enough lumber to fill a stupid ark

So be careful!

In any case, you did sum up well my point.  Interesting that some want to take it places I have no intent to take it.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

All right, you win.  It's been a long time since I've been called stupid, ignorant and an idiot all in 15 minutes.  Check that - my 11 year old daughter does it regularly.  I always figured you had about the same emotional state as her, John.

I stand by every word I say, btw.  If you sincerely believe that the majority of golfers prefer 9-hole courses, then perhaps you ought to look in the mirror for ignorance.

TH

I have spent 39 years playing the same nine hole course.  It is a real course that has hosted real golfers, even Master's champions, and you expect me to let it ride when you discount a major part of my life because it seems "wierd" to you.  When you learned that 29% of the nations courses are nine holers you could have either apologized or shut the hell up.  You brought this on yourself.

Can you read?  Hitting the bottle a little early this evening?

Again, I have no doubt such places exist.  I meant no offense to those that do.  I also just have no doubt they are small minority of golf courses.

And I did apologize for overstating things.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Ask 100 golfers to name their favorite courses and 99 will do so without naming a 9-hole course; and it's just because they don't think of them as "courses" at all.  That's what I mean by "odd."  These courses are the weird outliers of the golf world.  That doesn't make them bad, that doesn't deny that some are great fun, that doesn't deny that some exhibit wonders of design; it's just going to be a VERY difficult road for you to hoe if you expect many golfers to accept them as real golf courses.


TH

Is there no end..

Do you deny that?

I will admit the numbers are exaggerated.  But the main point is very correct.

Is there no end to my trial?

29% is not a weird outlier..

[Tom Huckaby]

Which of course I already admitted.  Response #14.

Can you read?