[Bill Gayne]

Angus Phillips, outdoor columnist for the Washington Post, in today's paper announces that he no longer wants to be involoved with member run clubs. His preference is for benevolent dictatorships. From the article:

"Schwartz agreed with me that the best kind of hunt club is not a democracy but a benevolent dictatorship. You need a central figure who owns the place, sets the rules unilaterally and picks who gets to come and who doesn't.

There are no meetings. Instead of paying to be a member, you bring a bottle of good whiskey, some nice cigars or a pot of venison stew. You follow the rules when you're there, smile and be thankful, and remember to send a Christmas card. It's just old-fashioned good manners. If you want to try something new such as rabbit hunting, check with the boss. If he says yes, you're in.

Tony Soprano would make a good hunt club dictator, but he's busy up in New Jersey. In his absence, my favorite capi di tutti capi are Bill Rowland, who owns a couple of farms on the Virginia line on the lower Eastern Shore where we hunt ducks, deer, quail and geese, and George Hughes, who has a 60-acre patch of woods along a creek near Easton that's good for deer, ducks, geese and wild turkeys.

Both have their foibles, and if they tried to introduce some of their rules in a democratic club they'd be drummed out. But they don't have to clear anything with anyone, and once you get used to their quirky rules, it turns out they actually enrich the experience."

The article then goes on to discuss some of those quirky rules for the hunt clubs.

www.washingtonpost.com for the entire article.

A couple of questions:

If given the preference of a dictatorship or a member managed golf club what's the preference?

Are there any quirky rules that golf club dictators have held that actually "enrich the experience?"

[Tom_Doak]

Would it not depend on the who is the dictator?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I sometimes agree that a benevolent dictator is the way.  Brown and Ransome have served well in that capcaity at Pine Valley.  Ont the other hand, I still like a member owned club.  I belonged to a club that was privately owned that was sold to a new investor.  He promptly closed one of the courses and sold the land to a developer.  My son's clubyears ago. was purchased my an individual who sold off fifty acres.  The course changed dramitically.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill Gayne,

I agree.

Tom Doak,

It only matters in the context that it would be understood that he will have been groomed for the job by his predeccessor and that he will groom his successor.


Tommy,

That's a different situation.
There's a difference between an "investor" and a member who has a "passion" for the golf course and club.

Clubs can be member owned and still have dictators.

Jack Lupton, Ken Bakst, Mike Keiser, Dick Youngscap, Roger Hansen and Mike Pascucci are but a few of those dictators who created and run their respective clubs.  And, I'd rather have them in charge than any committee, board or membership.

Pine Valley and Seminole are two other examples of clubs run by men groomed for the task, and, they seem to have been  run well for decades and decades.

Ask yourselves, would you rather join a club run by those dictators, or would you rather join a member owned club where 150 to 400+ owners want to put forth their own agenda ?

I'll take those guys any day, they get it and they do it and they do it right.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Tom, I'm not even sure if it depends on the dictator.  

The problem with clubs run by committee is that the changes are made at the whim of whoever is in charge this week.  With a dictator the changes are made according to the dictator, creating consistency.  

My own club is a perfect example, the golf course has remained fairly stable, in part because until last month I have been controlling the conditions through the superintendent for the last five years.  The Club house however, has become an embarassing mish mash combining the ideas of several different people while ignoring a very comprehensive master design plan created several years ago.  

Had one person been in charge, the design would have remained consistent(no matter whether you liked the decor) while a group has created what ultimately looks like its been decorated by idiots.  

It will be very interesting to see what becomes of the golf course now that a new leader has taken over.  He has asked me to stay on the committee but I am unsure whether I can stomach that.  

Give me a benign dictator, any benign leader is better than the alternative.

[Chris Cupit]

Democracies are nothing but mob rule.  A benevolent dictator is an obvious choice.

I think many people who join member owned equity clubs do so under the delusion that they have more control and that one day they will "get their money back" when they resign.  I'd love to look at the list of members who ever got any money back and compare that to the list of members who have been assessed for various reasons.

While there can be uneasiness when the torch is passed to a new dictator I believe that there is far more uncertainity with an annual board election.  The "wrong" few people get elected and now 8-12 people decide for 400 what direction the club goes in (this year).  Usually with a dictator comes stability that the whole direction of the club is not going to change--boards are notoriously fickle.

I'd rather pay a fee and have the dictator run the place than worry every year over the club's internal politics.

[Tommy Williamsen]

pat, I agree that passionate folks who develop a course and want to keep it special is the best of all possible scenarios. Dick Youngscap is the perfect example.  I would think that the prototype might be ole CB Mac at NGLA.  They seem to be growing in number as well.

[PThomas]

I only hear stories about good or benevolent dictators...there must be some instances where a dictator has been an idiot and messed things up yes?  

pls share some stories where we can learn...and if people want to keep the people and club anonymous, ok

[Craig Sweet]

Pol Pot

[Chris Kane]

Adolf Hitler

[PThomas]

Pol Pot

golf clubs you knuckleheads, not countries

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul Thomas,

It's not the isolated instances where errors are made, it's the
90 % to 99 % of the time where things are done right that counts.

[Tommy Williamsen]

It seems that many of the current crop of "benevolent " dicatators have one thing in common--they know how to listen to others.  Dick Youngscap knew how to listen at both Firethorn and Sand Hills.  He knew what he knew and knew what he didn't know.  The bottom line was that he made the final decision.  It is no mean trick to realize what you don't know and give up total control to some with more expertise.  I'm not as familiar with keiser, but it appears he operated the same way.

[Chris Cupit]

Paul,

I am sure there are cases you mention.  But the benefit of the dictator is that usually in order to be asked to join, you know the "deal" going in and you are only a part of the club if the dictator will "have you".  Mostly it's a case of seeing eye to eye with one another and being a good fit at the club--you're kind of on board before you bvecome a member and have a reasonable expectations of what to expect.

I think that's what is most appreciated--pretty much fewer curveballs with one guy than a committee.

Obviously if you tick off the "man" you're out.  There have been stories at my club over the years about people who were pretty much told to take a hike--at least they got their money back and could go somewhere else.

I think the biggest shock can come with a single person sells out to a management company--I think this happened at Atlanta National--I do think Heritage is doing an excellent job, there was however, the initial shock of losing the "leader".

At least in Atlanta, there are more examples of member clubs getting themselves in financial trouble than anything else.  

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

Passed-down dictatorships can and do go wrong.  Look at Augusta, for example.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Patrick:

Passed-down dictatorships can and do go wrong.  Look at Augusta, for example.

The Chinese have a saying that may be apropos for this discussion: "The first generation builds the business, the second maintains it, and the third destroys it."

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

That's inaccurate.

The first generation is the entepeneurial generation.
The second generation is the mangerial generation and the
third generation are the coupon clippers and dividend recipients.

Tom Doak,

You're viewing the dictatorship in the sole context of the archtecture, which I understand.

ANGC is also the only club that hosts a Major each and every year, so, it's subjected to pressures other clubs never experience.   I suspect that if any of the courses you designed hosted a Major every year, as young as your courses are, there'd be changes to them, changes you probably wouldn't agree with.

Still, for all the changes, ANGC is a spectacular golf course.

And, with all the changes over the years, the only one that is adversely pointed to, that would be deemed to be adverse to the membership, and perhaps others, is the narrowing of the golf course.

I think I can honestly say that there isn't a golf course, run by the dictators I've mentioned above, that I wouldn't want to be a member of.  And, I think 99 % of those on this site would agree with that.

TEPaul would probably insist on membership referendums on whether to put mayonaisse or mustard on certain sandwiches.  Coke vs Pepsi, etc., etc..

[Peter Pallotta]

Most of you are talking like guys who are sure they'd be "in" given the right dictator.  Me, I'm not so sure. You'd have to be a pretty bland guy - or very, very rich - to be safe from a dictator's capricious whims. At least with a committee,   you could try to spread the graft around a bit, and hope.

Peter  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Most of you are talking like guys who are sure they'd be "in" given the right dictator.  Me, I'm not so sure. You'd have to be a pretty bland guy - or very, very rich - to be safe from a dictator's capricious whims. At least with a committee,   you could try to spread the graft around a bit, and hope.
 

Peter,

Wealth has nothing to do with it.

And, it's got nothing to do with being "in"
With a dictator, everyone's "out"

Everyone's pretty substantial at ANGC, Seminole, PV and the others.

And, those memberships aren't filled with very bland members.

What experiences have you had with dictators at golf clubs ?

Judging by the waiting lists and years it takes to get in,
I suspect that the dictators at those clubs know what they're doing.  If they didn't, they'd be begging for prospective members instead of having to turn hordes of them away.

[Peter Pallotta]

Patrick
this is the smiley face   I should've added to my last post.

Peter

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter,

Understood.

At member run clubs, all members are equal.
Some are just more equal than others  

[Peter Pallotta]

And some are MUCH more equal than others, Patrick.

Kidding aside, though: is it really the case that clubs like ANGC, Seminole, and Pine Valley succeed BECAUSE of their dictatorships? These clubs are the cream of the crop: maybe they continue to succeed IN SPITE of their dictatorships.

I haven't experienced either in a golf club setting, but have experienced both in various other settings. Yes, I know the appeal of the benevolent dictatorship, and for that very reason am wary of them. In some cases, the dictatorship 'works', but usually at a goodly cost and with much collateral damage (that the dictator manages to sweep under the rug).  And when you have a project that 'just can't fail', it usually doesn't -- dictatorship or not.

Peter

[TEPaul]

A dictator of a hunt club?

What's that shooting? So what? It's sure isn't a golf club. What's the overhead of a hunt club? Less than a thousand?

[Chris Cupit]

Most of you are talking like guys who are sure they'd be "in" given the right dictator.  Me, I'm not so sure. You'd have to be a pretty bland guy - or very, very rich - to be safe from a dictator's capricious whims. At least with a committee,   you could try to spread the graft around a bit, and hope.

Peter  

Peter,

I have been a member at The Honors Course since 1991--I was 22 when I joined.  I can assure you I am not "very, very rich" and would like not to think of myself as bland.

I was a young person who loved golf and after being invited to the "Lupton Cup" one spring, I guess enough guys thought I was a good enough guy who wouldn't steal the towels from the showers , so I was invited to join.

BTW, my main sponsor was also the best man at my wedding--Charlie Rymer--hardly a "bland" guy himself.  Actually, the membership is a great bunch of guys and I am thankful we have had Mr. Lupton as our benevolent dictator--a great, great man.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Peter,

I think they succeed because of the dictatorships.

They provide tremendous continuity and stability.
They serve as a buffer to those who seek to constantly change things.  They provide the stability not found in rotating boards and committees.

Dictators are usually picked by their predecessor, and as such, groomed for their upcoming role as protectors of the values and traditions of the club and the golf course.

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