MacDonald & Raynor and Hugh Wilson in Southern California: Another Puzzle Piece?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

They left Bill Flynn home in the east, locked in the closet for stealing bed sheets and using them to build bunkers by!

You do the math. Is it real or Memorex? Is this the proof that the long lost Raynor plans for Riviera are somewhere in the Southland? Certainly C.B. HAD to spend sometime here in SoCal for a nice winter tan.....Seth could have used the air to warm his lungs.... You know! Come on, help me out! This thing is real! What is it doing in Southern California?

The very back portion of putting surface has been added, more then likely by Billy Bell Jr. when the course was slightly altered.

This is taken from the back right of the old green. It's a pretty signifcant swale, not Yale signifcant, but deep enough to have made it interesting....

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:

Not to tell tales out of school, but I heard a story that Macdonald had an illegitimate son out there in California, and that his grandson is out to vindicate his grandfather's reputation in an effort to gain some recognition himself.

But it's possible I have him confused with somebody else?

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tommy,

What course is that?

That looks like a really good Biarritz, but does not have the hard angles associated with Raynor or Banks. Was Ralph Barton ever in the area?

Anthony

[Jeff Doerr]

Is that the great track by my friends house in Ventura/Oxnard?!




Tommy, on a side note, I hope my thread on #10 at Riviera is not seen in this same light!

[ed_getka]

What are you guys looking at? Do I need a secret decoder ring?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,

Yes, C.B. did have an illigetimate son named, Ronald who in fact lived out here in SoCal and went on to a very lucrative career of his own in the fast food business. Ronald was born in 1912, conceived in 1911 after a short tryst in a hen house near Seboneck Neck, Long Island.

His mother, in the fourth month of her pregnancy, was "moved" out here as to keep out of the eyes of a watchful and very vengeful Mrs. C.B. MacDonald, who swore if she ever caught C.B. fooling around on her that she would hand him his gof balls on a plate. Mother and her unborn son loaded on a train to Grand Central and then caught a connector to the coast in J.P. Morgan's private rail car, which was loaned to his friend C.B. to further camoflauge the situation.

Needless to say, it was quite the scandel.

But MacDonald would continue this affair, making annual "quickies" to the coast during the winter. This affair which up to this point was concealed until I came across a small unheard of course not far from LAX, in the hamlet of Gardena long known more for their delicious hickory-smoked BBQ and fried chicken.

Rummaging throught he old superintendents shed, I found some lost love notes--PROOF that the slouch George Bahto doesn't know everything--the absolute proof that C.B. MacDonald and his valet, Seth Raynor did design courses in the land of the sun and fun.

But there's more.....

While building and having to rebuild Merion, a clueless Hugh Wilson desperately needing advice from C.B. and when finding out he was making one of his secret meetings out here, got on board a Havemayer-owned private rail car and "railed" out to the coast. Finding both MacDonald and Raynor both in a drunken stupor and feeling left out, Wilson joined in the fun and impregnated a "special" new friend named, Chiquita.

Seeing the benefits of the coast but yet, wanting complete anonymity, Wilson started designing courses out here as well under the psuedo name of Captain George C. Thomas.

Wilson liked the life out here so much that he insisted his valet/butt boy William Flynn assist him in helping build some of our more popular layouts, but Flynn, being an East Coaster at heart, found that he could do no more then 5-6 months a year out here, as the year-round sun was a little too much for his fragile skin. None the less, he utlized a second identity, a very simple one, William P. Bell.

And now you know the rest of the story.....

[Tom Roewer]

Beautiful Tommy N :  Now I can renew my quest for the lost Wilson/Thomas links in Mexico.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ed,
My aim is true.

I'm intending on taking this thread, singlehandly if need be, beyond 33 pages into Rees Pieces Alive and Well in Rancho Santa Fe/Rees Jones Article in Cigar Afficianado territory.

Please help me reach my goal...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom, Yes, Flynn was--as William Bell--in Tijuana and designed the famed Agua Caliente.....

[Mike_Cirba]

Niiiiiceee....it feels really warm in here.  

I see Emmet, I see Whigham.  
Further down, there's Alan Wilson,
Macdonald, Tilly, Flynn all terrific,
But tell me how you define "specific"
Get the logs of who sailed the Pacific.

[RJ_Daley]

Now for the most delicate of questions...  

Did that east coast sojourner, C.B. leave behind a female love child in the lala land of sun and fun, who then went on to marry a Moriarity, who had a son who grew up to be an attorney and champion of his law school "moot court" and debate club, who is determined to reclaim his birthrights and rightful place in golf history and lore, and thereby entitle himself by said rights to an honorary legacy membership at NGLA and Merion, as designed by his same ancestor?

Stranger than fiction?  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Niiiiiceee....it feels really warm in here.  

I see Emmet, I see Whigham.  
Further down, there's Alan Wilson,
Macdonald, Tilly, Flynn all terrific,
But tell me how you define "specific"
Get the logs of who sailed the Pacific.

Dick,
Just to prove Mike is totally wrong and is a worthless slut, he is right about Emmet. Dev would come out west and setup shop in west L.A., eventually becoming the founder of the West L.A. Chamber of Commerce and mayor emeritus. Up until 1946 he could be seen walking his AKA Award-Winning poodle up and down San Vincente, and yes, he was carrying a Gucci handbag/satchel with him....

But where Mike totally hits off base, misses his mark is Alan Wilson. Upon arrival to the Southland, Wilson, an avid musician, became very in tune with the local surf scene and encouraged his cousins who would eventually follow him out here to join up and form a music group called, The Beach Boys.

Mike,
Specific in this way: Everybody is wrong, I'm right, ALWAYS......Get to know this and we'll get along just fine. Your either with me or against me. Don't be against me. You don't want to be against me..... My brother Fredo was against me--once.....

Time to go, I have a straight jacket awaiting......

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ed,
This is what most would call a "Chasm" or Biarritz hole in it's entirety, just lying falow waiting to be restored. More then likely it's has been created by either John Duncan Dunn, Billy Bell and/or someone named R.C. Noble, who is credited in the L.A. Times for creating this pretty cool ghost of a golf course.

Everything you see in front and the right side of the old green which is now playing as fairway was really rough creek bed with about 3-5 foot of standing water all the way up until the early to mid-60's, when the course four holes were changed on the course and massive drainage was installed to prevent any liability. Things devolved at one point that only the front portion of the green was utlized as a short one-shot hole, but in it's purest form, the hole played like anywhere from 135 to 170. The swale is in there if you look closely, more of a dramatic dip that goes down about three or four feet and then rises up. The end of the green finishes right at the start of the current one, which was added when the course was altered. For what reason, I haven't found out yet.

The entire left side looks to have been some dramatic bunkering with the entire right side being very hazardous creek bed. The images I have posted are taken from a far right angle to show as much of the green as possible so your looking at the hole from a 45 degree angle, right.

This isn't the only cool stuff going on there either. There are many cool little mounds and bunkers that just out into the fronts of many of the fairways with the opposite sides of the fairways being open to receive safer shots, but with more intricate fairway and greenside bunkering adding to the strategy. It all proves one thing to me, that at one time there was some intelligent life out here designing and building public golf courses. It's not ground breaking architecture, but certainly surprising to find just a few minutes away from LAX. I'll post some more images later.

[Tom Roewer]

Tommy:  You are getting soooo sick that i am starting to understand you.  

[Mike_Cirba]

R.C. Noble went to London
Just to see the heathlands,
Came back to L A with Macdonald,
And built himself an Eden

So let me all tell you bout a man named Noble,
A poor architect barely kept his family fed,
Then one day he met this CB dude,
Next thing you know he's got a new tood...

Atti, that is....Attitood!  

Well next thing you know Noble's a classic fool
Built a Biarritz and probably an Alps too,
Learned it all in one night at a place called NGLA
Came back to his crib, knew he had to get away,

The kinfolk said, "RC move away from there",
"That night with Dev and CB has taught you how to...um...share"
They said Californey is the place you wanna be,
So he loaded up his stuff and moved to Beverly...

Hills, that is, as in Art Hills...LAX...future home of Ted Robinson..

So now you all know another puzzle piece,
Put it all together and you'll start to understand Rees,
And what he did at Torrey and how it was received,
Cause in that desert wasteland the blind architect is king!    

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Rower,
See, you feed MBCirba a bone and he takes it a country mile! (The ignorant slut that he is)

If looking at the course on Google Earth or Windows Live, your not going to see much just because of the turf and the shrinkage of putting surfaces etc. I haven't said the name of the course simply because I don't know how people will take it if I were to tell them just how cool this is for a public course out here. I want at least one person to see it and verify it for themselves, and mostly because I do have a habit of being a bit rambunctious for this kind of stuff. I get excited pretty easily, but what I see there is in the ground, excellent strageis and surprisingly greens with some interesting contours, shapes and even speeds.

The course is not in the best condition to look at simply because of the cold air we have been having. However it's running pretty fast & firm even for wall to wall kikuyu.

I don't know who it was, but someone recently was putting down this course. (I thought it was Ryan Simper) They said there was nothing there or something to that effect. for years I've expected something was in fact there but given the area, had just never really ventured out there to play. I can say now that I've been a fool for not wanting to do that. this is a golf course that I think would rival Griffith Park, Long Beach Rec Park and Brookside if they all could be restored to their past greatness, evn though holes are missing and impossible to ever get back.

I was like a young schoolboy waiting for his frist sex when I saw this Chasm/Biarritz last Monday. Then again that would make me a slut too! (right Mike?)

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy,

C'mon...admit it.

Without the direct SIGNIFICANT influence of CB Macdonald and HJ Whigham, you wouldn't have even known what you were looking at!  

Don't you think it's time you properly acknowledge their contributions to this thread?  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

(I'm going to do this in my best Dan Ackroyd imitation)

Mike, you ignorant slut.....

Only a fool would over-look the achievements of a C.B. MacDonald and Seth Raynor, two men that devoted their lives to golf architecture and had no problem taking credit for the achievements of others...

In a world where grown men act like children, the credit should all go to those who nurtured the golf course from a vacant field to a play yard of green grass and scotch broom. While the insistence of looking on real estate records, shipping manifestos and pertinent passport information, ingenuis, I can't help to think that ultimately it will all prove that We are all so full of ourselves and our surroundings that it diminishes the very soul of golf that these gentleman fought so hard to protect.....

And just who did you sleep with to get on Merion anyway? ? ? ?



 

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Oh, and by the way, #9 at Merion is a Biarritz hole......

(Oh shit!)

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy,

Actually, it's #4 on the West course that's the Biarritz.  9 on the East is a downhill redan.  

You probably won't believe this but if memory serves, I think I had to sleep with the entire Merion debutante class of 2002 to garner an invite.  

All in the name of dedicated GCA historical research, of course.  

[TEPaul]

There's an interesting letter from Hugh Wilson in the "agronomy letters" in which he mentions all the advice George Thomas has been asking him for from California. Wilson mentioned it was too bad for the professional architects that Thomas did it for free.

Then there's a letter from Hugh about a letter he got from Max Behr about Merion and how Hugh had actually upped the moral state amongst men, or some such thing, by what he had done in architecture. Hugh mentioned it might take him the rest of his life to actually figure out what Max was talking about.