[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - I never said I was from a 0-6; Jordan said that.  

Getting harder and harder to tell you two apart. Easy mistake at this point..

 
Oh man, dying here....

The evidence is all over the place.

[tlavin]

Playing just one course at Bandon Dunes is like going to the Masters and staying at the first tee all day.  I'm sure many people have their personal favorites (I'm a Pacific devotee), but you HAVE TO PLAY ALL THREE.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Playing just one course at Bandon Dunes is like going to the Masters and staying at the first tee all day.  I'm sure many people have their personal favorites (I'm a Pacific devotee), but you HAVE TO PLAY ALL THREE.  

100% concurrence re that.  That's why I asked right at the beginning if he's SURE he can't play more.....

In fact it might even not be worth doing at all.  Perhaps that's a question for a separate thread... but is it better to play one of these courses and not get to play the other two, knowing you were THAT close to greatness and didn't get to do it, or to wait until you can play all three?

Thinking about it a bit more, I'd say this is perhaps more like going to Augusta and getting to play just 6 holes.  Even if you can pick what you think are the best six - say 10-15 - wouldn't it kill you to have to leave without playing the other 12?  Or is Amen Corner better than no Augusta at all?

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

You can play Bandon Dunes and get a feel for the total resort.  Neither Doak or C&C did anything out there you can't see by playing any of their other courses.  If you disagree...please name something.

[peter_p]

so said the blindfolded men deciding how describe an eleplant by feel.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:  I believe Peter said enough.  But what the hell, I'll give it a try.

If one has only played Doak and C&C courses nowhere near sandy dunes or the ocean - or played none of their courses at all - then there's a lot to see at BT and PD that he will have not seen elsewhere.   Even if the man has played every C&C and Doak course on earth, that land in Bandon is rather different for this reason also, and each course is pretty darn fun to play.  But is the guy going there to study architecture, or play golf?  If it is the former, then hell if I know, maybe he will see nothing new.

I think he wants to play golf.  Thus I'm not sure if your question has any relevance.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Playing just one course at Bandon Dunes is like going to the Masters and staying at the first tee all day.  I'm sure many people have their personal favorites (I'm a Pacific devotee), but you HAVE TO PLAY ALL THREE.  

100% concurrence re that.  That's why I asked right at the beginning if he's SURE he can't play more.....

In fact it might even not be worth doing at all.  Perhaps that's a question for a separate thread... but is it better to play one of these courses and not get to play the other two, knowing you were THAT close to greatness and didn't get to do it, or to wait until you can play all three?

Thinking about it a bit more, I'd say this is perhaps more like going to Augusta and getting to play just 6 holes.  Even if you can pick what you think are the best six - say 10-15 - wouldn't it kill you to have to leave without playing the other 12?  Or is Amen Corner better than no Augusta at all?

TH

HI Tom,

0-6, 2-7, its all the same to me   Thanks for the clarification though.

As someone who has been there and only had time and money to play 1 course, I would still say its well worth the trip.  Sure I would have loved to play the other two, but it just didn't fit into my schedule.  So for me, it was a case of better to at least play one of them, PacDunes, then see none of them.  And I'm a west coast guy, so I know I'll be back soon.

As to Johns question, holes 7 with the amazing bunkering and 13 with that massive dune, on PD come to mind for something you would not see on BD.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - that's all cool by me.  I guess in the end it is a full course and a great one at that, so my Augusta comparison is silly.  Playing one great course is never going to be a bad thing.

It just must lead to a strong urge to return quickly... especially if the one you play is either BD or PD, where you can see a lot of the adjacent course....

 

As for low handicappers, well.... the point was I wasn't giving my personal feelings about the course but rather reporting what I heard from other low 'cappers not as whimsical as I am.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen - that's all cool by me.  I guess in the end it is a full course and a great one at that, so my Augusta comparison is silly.  Playing one great course is never going to be a bad thing.

It just must lead to a strong urge to return quickly... especially if the one you play is either BD or PD, where you can see a lot of the adjacent course....

 

As for low handicappers, well.... the point was I wasn't giving my personal feelings about the course but rather reporting what I heard from other low 'cappers not as whimsical as I am.

You're right about that one Tom, I get a serious hankering at least once a week just to jump in the car and head out there, consequences be damned.  But that pesky work, family, responsiblity thing always gets in the way  

I understand your points very well though, it is torture to not see every square inch of the facility.

As far as which course to play, since we had never been there before, we decided to take the which course is rated the highest approach.  But I may have converted my friend a bit over to the GCA side.  Before going out there, he was one of the people in the "a golf course is a golf course" camp.  Needless to say he was converted over after playing 18 at PacDunes.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - and which course is rated highest?  Pacific Dunes.   I mention that only because way back at the beginning of this JK denied such....

And I have no doubt you have zero regrets about the choice.  Funny thing is I'd guess the regrets would also be few if any if you chose one of the other courses... all three are pretty damn great and pretty close to equal.

As for your friend, I feel sorry for him if he's converting to the norms found in here.    Never has a place more proven than this one that ignorance is bliss.

 

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen - and which course is rated highest?  Pacific Dunes.   I mention that only because way back at the beginning of this JK denied such....

That is not always correct.  You need to be specific who ranks it higher and why.  The rankings you site say that Victoria National is the 21st best course in the country and Riviera is 47th.  Why not tell people what you and your peers think is best instead of what some magazine says.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:

Please point out to me any national magazine ranking in which PD is not the highest-ranked of the three courses.

Note I am in no way shape of form commening on the accuracy of such rankings, nor giving my personal opinions.  All I ever meant to say, and all I am saying, is that the magazine rankings have PD as the best course.  And if one is interested in impressing the boys back home by playing a famous highly-rated course, it makes sense to use the one that is highest-rated by the things the boys back home can see.  I can't see one impressing his friends by saying "I played the course John Kavanaugh likes best."  In the real world people do get impressed by "I played the #__ best course in the US from the ___ magazine ratings."  Sucks, but it's true.

And OBVIOUSLY which course I'd personally recommend as the most fun or most whatever may or may not agree with these rankings.  In this case, for a 15 handicap, I'd agree.   But that is not my point in even mention the magazine ratings... it is simply in terms of the impressing the boys back home issue, which does seem to be important to some people.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

That is correct Pac Dunes is rated the highest on all of the rankings I've seen.  I'm guessing Johns point is that he doesn't agree with the ratings, or perhaps with the people assigning the ratings, but thats a different topic.

As to my friend, don't worry about him "slumming" on these boards anytime soon, he's got his own passions. He thinks I'm an odd creature because I'm more than willing to learn and talk GCA 24/7.  But at least he understands now why people will drive and spend fistfuls of cash to play golf in the middle of nowhere.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - thank you - JK is bringing up a very different topic and trying to pin me on a point I am not even attempting to make.

And that is very cool re your friend... and yes we are all odd ducks in here.

 

[Kalen Braley]

To me it was about trying to gather the best information that I could get.  I knew we only had 1 course to play so knowing that price is the same for all courses, play the highest rated one.  

And to boot, I'm a huge fan of MacK and the work he did.  Combine that with what I read about Doak and that he too agrees with MacK's philosphies, it was a no brainer to play PacDunes.

Its as simple as that..

[Tom Huckaby]

Makes perfect sense to me, Kalen.

But JK's going to be insulted you didn't consult with him first and base your decision entirely on his recommendations.

 

[John Kavanaugh]

I am not bringing up a different topic...I am simply saying and giving examples of individuals respected in the golfing community who think Bandon Trails is the best course at the Resort.  

[Tom Huckaby]

I am not bringing up a different topic...I am simply saying and giving examples of individuals respected in the golfing community who think Bandon Trails is the best course at the Resort.  

That's not a different topic?

Your logic is interesting, John.  Of course that is par for the course for you.

Certainly not everyone agrees with the magazine ratings.  Of course I never said they did, nor that any of this was universal.  

Care to address the point I am trying to make, that Kalen proved with a real-world example?

TH

ps - funniest part about all of this is that you consider yourself as an individual respected in the golf community.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck,

What point are you trying to make.  I thought you were just out looking for another cyber hug to warm up your cubicle.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

What point are you trying to make.  I thought you were just out looking for another cyber hug to warm up your cubicle.

This is getting pretty old, John.

I've attempted to make several points in this thread.  You can read them or not.  In the meantime, no cyber-hugs are needed.  But thanks.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Seriously,  I thought your point was to play Pacific because it was ranked higher by magazines and that in turn allowed you to make your friends jealous.  I addressed that when I pointed out the flaw in your theory using a course where I am a member as an example.  You would have to have some strange bed fellows if they ever got jealous because you chose Victoria National over Riviera and went on to defend yourself by pointing out the mag ratings.

Now what about architecture do you want me to address...

[Tom Huckaby]

JK:

Seriously, I never said that this was without flaws; your example is a good one.

But one exception does not completely disprove the point.  In general, I do believe the magazine ratings are worthwhile for this odd purpose.

I have zero desire for you to address anything else, thank you very much.  But I'm sure I won't stop you.

TH

ps - I am off to a world away from computers.  So the floor is yours.  Enjoy.

[Tim Pitner]

My advice:  play whichever course you can get on at a time convenient for you.  You can't really go wrong with any of the three courses.  From the green tees, they're all very playable for a 15.  Then, go back and play them all, many times.  And play Sheep Ranch too while it's still there.  

Which is better--Pacific Dunes or Bandon Trails?  Who cares.  I'd vote for PD, but they're both great.  

[Kalen Braley]

what do you know about sheep ranch tim?  Its a bit of a mystery to me.

[Tim Pitner]

Kalen,

Tom Doak laid out the "course."  It's located north of Pacific Dunes.  It's not a golf course per se, just a collection of fairways and greens that can be played from multiple different vantage points.  12 or 14 greens, I believe.  It's great fun; a terrific way to spend an afternoon.  Try a search on here--there's plenty of information on Sheep Ranch.  If you still need details about how to play it, etc., send me an IM and I'll fill you in.

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