Nicklaus and Sand Hills....

[Tommy Williamsen]

For forty years Jack played courses all over the world.  Most of them were at least good to great.  I can understand not being interested in playing more of them.  After years of playing fifty to sixty new courses every year, there are very few I am interested in seeing.
On the other hand if Jack is truly interested in design as a craft, it only makes sense for him to at least walk some of the great courses that have influenced golf course architecture.  Maybe that is why some of his first courses were unsatisfactory.  It is fascinating that in Tony's interview that he actually didn't seem to see the need to see CB's or other's work.  

[Joe Hancock]

I'd be astounded if Jack thought about little things like "career". Honestly...that's what seperates the men from the boys. Jack is way beyond "career".
Joe

And maybe that is the answer to my question.  He might be the only one who wouldn't check Sand Hills out.

I also wouldn't be surprised if his schedule is extremely full. I wonder if I could keep up with the man....my point being that none of us know what his reasons and motivations are. I guess it might be wise to not be too negative about his methods and motivations without walking in his shoes. After all, he does have a helluva lot to show for his career, wouldn't you say?

Joe

[Joe Bentham]

I'd be astounded if Jack thought about little things like "career". Honestly...that's what seperates the men from the boys. Jack is way beyond "career".
Joe

And maybe that is the answer to my question.  He might be the only one who wouldn't check Sand Hills out.

I also wouldn't be surprised if his schedule is extremely full. I wonder if I could keep up with the man....my point being that none of us know what his reasons and motivations are. I guess it might be wise to not be too negative about his methods and motivations without walking in his shoes. After all, he does have a helluva lot to show for his career, wouldn't you say?

Joe

Jack is one of the pillars of golf.  I only wonder if his designs suffer because of it.

[Joe Hancock]

I'd be astounded if Jack thought about little things like "career". Honestly...that's what seperates the men from the boys. Jack is way beyond "career".
Joe

And maybe that is the answer to my question.  He might be the only one who wouldn't check Sand Hills out.

I also wouldn't be surprised if his schedule is extremely full. I wonder if I could keep up with the man....my point being that none of us know what his reasons and motivations are. I guess it might be wise to not be too negative about his methods and motivations without walking in his shoes. After all, he does have a helluva lot to show for his career, wouldn't you say?

Joe

Jack is one of the pillars of golf.  I only wonder if his designs suffer because of it.

I see what you're getting at now. I don't have an answer, either. I haven't seen enough of Jack's designs, especially new stuff, to cast a stone.

Joe

[RJ_Daley]

Joe B, if I were really tired of it all, had been there and done that, and had the occasion or need to redefine what the rest of my life should be, then my mindset would be exactly that.  But, I wouldn't try to have it both ways.  

I don't necessarily dislike JN for seeming a little aloof and possibly arrogant about other great GCA work.   None of us will ever know what it is like to be Jack, ever!  Yet, I don't relate to that mindset either.

I do think this may have a bit of a mellancholly element to it.  To be so involved at the highest level for so long, and to be so interdependent on an organization you created, is both a great, exhilirating, and potentially a depressing situation at the same time.  

I couldn't personally be disinterested or aloof to someone else's great GCA work, because I don't have any comprehension of what it is like to be Jack.  I personally would be greatly interested and go out of my way to see it.  

Yet, I feel a bit sorry for him, if he is truly disinterested by the prospect of paying tribute or respect to a collegue's work, right across the road!  

[Joe Bentham]

It just seems so out of place when talking about a project owing so much to another course.  Dismal River wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Sand Hills renown and success

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

I'm always amazed at how people make excuses for celebrities whether it be athletes or actors. Jack didn't go to those courses because of his arrogance .

When the Ryder Cup was at The Country Club, Crenshaw played Whitinsville, a nine-hole golf course 45 minutes away and he still raves about it. Last week I received a note from him raving about the ninth hole there.

I was an NHL beat writer for eight years, have covered a number of PGA golf events and dealt with NBA, NFL and MLB players. This whole idea that they are different than we are or somehow have pressures on them that we can understand is wrong. Meet Wayne Gretzky or Crenshaw once and then tell me you understand the Nicklaus attitude. He's and arrogant pr*ck. That may be the reason he's the greatest golfer ever but it also explains why the vast majority of his designs at average at best; don't take my word for it, read Confidential Guide for reviews of his courses.

And here's a head's up: Tiger is the same way. At Winged Foot he had his people tell the USGA he wanted the grounds crew members to work elsewhere when he was playing his practice round because they were distracting him with their work.

Anthony

[Dan Smoot]

With those who know or have met Jack,  I am sure you have gained some insight into the man that many of us will never know.  Having said that, does he really have time and desire to study all the great architects?  Given what he has accomplished, the demands of his time, the closeness of his family, the years of traveling the world - I marvel at how he does what he does at his age.  

I highly regard what I have personally seen of Tom Doak's work.    Jack appears to be a gracious man but also one with definite ideas concerning things about golf.  I have always wondered how the personal dynamics worked between Tom Doak and Jack with Sebonack.   I am assuming there had to be considerable give and take on design decisions and some very interesting discussions about GCA.  I would love to read a book along the lines of the recent Bandon Dunes book concerning the creation of Sebonack.   None of us are ever beyond the point of learning from someone else, that is one of the great things about life in general.

[RJ_Daley]

Tony, you should express yourself more and try to let your feelings come out!  

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

RJ:

My apologies. I'll try to be me in the future. Please, give me time.

Anthony

[Jim Nugent]

I'm sure I read in the past year Jack say that he has no interest in playing golf (and almost never does), unless it's in a tournament.  If this is so, couple of questions come to my mind.

One, does Jack really enjoy golf?  I mean just playing the game itself?  Or for him is it a competitive arena where, like a gladiator, he was able to beat the brains out of every other person who ever lived?  When he could no longer win, he stopped playing.  

Two, how important is the course to him really?  Does it really matter much whether he kills the rest of the players at RCD or TOC or TCC?  Ultimately, to him a golf course is a golf course is a golf course.  

Three, how much can he relate to average golfers?  Percentage-wise, very few golfers play to compete.  Most play to have fun.  Not only is Jack's physical game on a different planet from theirs.  So is his mental game.  

He has a "been there, seen that" attitude to golf course architecture.  His design firm is a factory, that churns out nice courses by the scores, but no home runs, unless he works with someone like Doak.  

 

[John Kavanaugh]

Jim,

Have you had a chance to play a golf course since you said this in 2005.. "To play a course.  (Last time was 1998.)"  

[Mark_F]

And here's a head's up: Tiger is the same way. At Winged Foot he had his people tell the USGA he wanted the grounds crew members to work elsewhere when he was playing his practice round because they were distracting him with their work.

When Woods was in Australia once he was asked to sign a driver that was going to be auctioned for Charity.

He refused.

The sad part is that he can put on his public face and be held up as an example of how lucky we are to have him without anyone giving him a workover.

[Jim Nugent]

John, sadly, no.  

[Andrew Hastie]

Would Sebonack have been a better golf course if Tom Doak had worked alone, or did having Jack along make it better course.They say two heads are better then one.
Sebonack, who's style is it closer to Nicklaus or Doak.
I wonder would Tom work with such a partner again?

[cary lichtenstein]

Me thinks JN's body of work would have beeen better is he had been more open minded much earlier in his career as a golf course designer.

[Jerry Kluger]

Does anyone believe that JN did something wrong at DR that he would not have done had he played SH?

He might not have played SH but I would venture a guess that when he visited DR he would have flown into North Platte and taken a helicopter from there. Do you really think he would have told the helicopter pilot not to fly over SH even though they are seconds away from each other?

[Dan Kelly]

I would love to read a book along the lines of the recent Bandon Dunes book concerning the creation of Sebonack.

Did Brad Klein put you up to this?  

[Kalen Braley]

I highly regard what I have personally seen of Tom Doak's work.    Jack appears to be a gracious man but also one with definite ideas concerning things about golf.  I have always wondered how the personal dynamics worked between Tom Doak and Jack with Sebonack.   I am assuming there had to be considerable give and take on design decisions and some very interesting discussions about GCA.  I would love to read a book along the lines of the recent Bandon Dunes book concerning the creation of Sebonack.   None of us are ever beyond the point of learning from someone else, that is one of the great things about life in general.

There is such a book about sebonack.  I don't know how much it gets into the detailed behind the scenes action, but would likely be a decent read.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Sebonack-Bradley-Klein-Haralson/dp/0978717201/sr=8-2/qid=1169820772/ref=sr_1_2/002-9757988-3052050?ie=UTF8&s=books

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Cary,

In the aforementioned Links article Nicklaus admits to being a tad too arrogant early in his design career, which did not allow him to listen to others.

Anthony

[Dan Kelly]

... would likely be a decent read.

That's just the sort of critical rave we writers live for.

[Kalen Braley]

... would likely be a decent read.

That's just the sort of critical rave we writers live for.

lol..Sorry Dan,

I would vouch for the book with more energy, but have not had the privilege to read it yet.

It was out of stock on Amazon.  Is supply intentionally being held back to garner a higher price?  

[Punchbowl]

Nicklaus played NGLA around the time of the 1986 open at Shinnecock.  At the time, the 8th was his favorite hole there....and he got the club to raise the eleventh fairway so that the green could be seen at least from the right side.

[tlavin]

The mind boggles when you think that a golfer would be within 50 miles of Sand Hills and not play it if he had the chance.  It boggles further when you think of a golf course architect being within 50 miles of Sand Hills and refusing to at least tour the golf course.  I guess he could suggest that he didn't want to be "influenced" by the property next door, but that seems a flimsy excuse, IMHO.  It sounds like unbridled ego and arrogance to me.  In other words, it sounds like vintage Jack who always says whats in his head and he always talks about himself...

[Philippe Binette]

If I was going to design something on a site similar to Sand hills 50 miles from it, I don't know if I would want to see it...

1) I wouldn't want to analyse it too much and start copying it or
2) I wouldn't want to analyse it too much and start avoiding copying it...

I might have play it once but not spend too much time there and focus on my job.