[John Kavanaugh]

I'm talking to a friend who lives in my home town of 4,000 or so people and he tells me he had a hole in one on the 7th hole at Barona.  Amazing.  Even with that little fact I have to give the nod to Rustic Canyon because of the greens.  Seems like Rustic was an easier walk and a bit of a better value to boot.  Seems like from what I can recall the infrastructure getting to Rustic (the road that is) was in better shape also.  Just to seal the deal I'm also giving Rustic the food nod.

[cary lichtenstein]

Great hot dogs at Rustic

[Mike_Sweeney]

John,

What next from JakaB, Sand Hills is better than Dismal River?

What happen to the days of JakaB going against the grain, sticking up for Fazio, poking at raters and fighting with Geoffrey? A couple of your recent exchanges with Dr Childs made me think this cancer stuff has worn you out. Either that or you are positioning for hitting up Brad to be a rater?

[cary lichtenstein]

Mike:

JakaB must be on new meds, it's like the old tv show, "Will the real JakaB please stand up"?

Cary

[John Kavanaugh]

I am a little depressed after Jack Bauer couldn't prevent the nuke from hitting LA.  I went through this same thing when Edgar died.  How close is Rustic to Valencia....I hope everyone is ok.  Between both our daughters living in LA this might bring Brad and I closer together.

[Brad Tufts]

In one round over each, I give the nod to Barona, but this may be a common decision after one play.  Barona is certainly more visually captivating.  

Barona is better conditioned, the white-sand bunkers being very ornate at times.  Rustic is a bit quirkier, more strategic, and has a few more #@$!-inducing moments, which is not altogether a bad thing.

I plan to reconnoiter in April with possible visits to both.

p.s...You LA boys keep your friends close, but your enemies closer, I hope the Holmby Pony match ended better than the Jack-Curtis-Assad standoff did....

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the "trout stream" at Barona a waterfall.  It is one of my all time favs.  Curtis seemed to have eaten well in the off season...I was happy to see him go...I'm surprised Jack went with the throat shot when Curtis has such a large head.  He must have flinched.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Yes, Edgar was a tough nut to swallow.
But Curtis was no small bean.

I like Rustic - 7.5 to 7

[cary lichtenstein]

I have yet to play Barona, but I liked Oak Quarry better than Rustic, just more dramatic, better topography. Just one play each however.

Will play Barona on my next trip to California. Any CGA who want to play Barona with me, pls IM me.

[Brian Noser]

John,

Valencia is a good 45mins-hour to Rustic. Although it can be made in about 30mins .. I Lived in valencia for 2 years. very nice town...PM me if you have any questions..

[John Kavanaugh]

Barona does get the nod for long par 3.  The one shortcoming I found at Rustic.  Even though Edgar was a momma's boy he never went against the nation's best interest.  Curtis was a traitor.  

[cary lichtenstein]

Everyone loved Edgar

[John Kirk]

I haven't played Barona Creek, but I've played Rustic Canyon once with Tommy Naccarato and Adam Clayman at dawn.  Three things I really liked about Rustic were:

1.  Most of the holes played a half club uphill or downhill, and the constant gentle slope of the valley made it very hard to perceive.

2.  There are no houses, and I really loved the native wildlife bordering the course.  It was in May after a rainy spring, and the wild mustard was blooming and bright yellow.

3.  The tri-tip sandwich in the club house was to die for.  Thought I'd mention that again.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I would like to know the percentage of golfers that walk each course.  Guessing Rustic 40% Barona 5%..

[Brad Tufts]

I would agree with that percentage, based on how they are marketed...daily fee vs. resort, although they are probably equally easy/difficult to walk...

Rustic is decidedly low-key and unpretentious, and Barona is a resort course that offers something different, despite the fact that in season it is quite expensive to play on a weekend even though it is up in the mountains and not very close to SD-proper...

[RJ_Daley]

Architecturally, BC is more fancy made and detailed.  That doesn't necessarily make it better to play.  It may be tougher to play than RC due to more difficult shot requirments.  I give BC the nod in aesthetics for sure.

Yet, the more minimalist design of RC makes it more user friendly.  From the easier walk, to the bigger field of play with more room and options off the tee.  The greens surrounds of RC also make it more fun and user friendly on an everyday basis, not to mention the more friendly requirement on the pocketbook.  But, not by much.  

They are both exceptional golf courses IMHO.  If I lived out there somewhere in the middle, I'd play them about equal numbers of times.  

[Pete Lavallee]

I live 30 minutes from Barona Creek and 3 hours from Rustic Canyon, sadly I wish that situation was reversed. Mainly from an economic standpoint. I can play Barona at twilight, for $55, but usually end up playing with golfers who are less than fully focused on the golf there. It's very difficult to get the Sunday group to play out there more than a couple of times a year; $100 is a lot for guys with families to pay for a weekend round.

Rustic Canyon does make for a better everyday course as you are going to have to invent shots several times each round played there. The stock play works almost 95% of the time at Barona.

However Barona has a higher shot value challange; they're not taking the Nationwide Tour Championship there in 2007 and 2008 for nothing. It will be very interesting to see how they set up the course for that tourrnament. Will the fairways be narrowed? Will par be changed to 70 to raise scores? Even with an additional 500 yards and a 7500 yard total, the course still plays short. Although it will be a wedge fest, there are lots of Sunday pin placements that will actually reward postion off the tee.

[John Kavanaugh]

Pete,

Sadly the Nationwide tour was a history of making a course easier rather than harder to create the illusion that those guys are good.  Good in the Biblical sense so as to not get your panties in a bunch.

[Joe Perches]

I would like to know the percentage of golfers that walk each course.  Guessing Rustic 40% Barona 5%..

I was told by Rustic Canyon staff that about 25% walk.

[Pete Lavallee]

Other than GCAers' in over 30 plays at Barona I have only seen 1 person walk. When the cart is included and you don't get the use of GPS I doubt if 1% actually walk the course.

Even when SDSU plays their practice rounds they ride. I know if I was their coach they'de be walking. At least hosting college tournaments has made the course easier to walk for the few that do. It really is an easy course to walk, with no steep hills and short green to tee distances. And just for John there is water on at least 5 holes and the practice range; no benches though.

[Tim Pitner]

I would like to know the percentage of golfers that walk each course.  Guessing Rustic 40% Barona 5%..

I was told by Rustic Canyon staff that about 25% walk.

Why is that number so low at Rustic?  I've never played it, but it sounds eminently walkable.  Is climate a factor?  Culture of riding in area?

[RJ_Daley]

The walking factor isn't that huge of a difference from Barona to Rustic.  Barona is stretched out a bit more, and the walk over to 10 from 9 is a bit, but not any worse than say TOC at Kiawah Island.  The walk down from the high tee back at 15 (?) is a bit much, but if my old fat butt can handle it, the flat bellies sure can...  

[rjsimper]

There are a few long walks from green to tee...and JK will attest to the existence of "Mount 16th Tee" near the end of the round...but mainly I think it's just force of habit.
 

[John Kavanaugh]

I sadly skipped my trip to Bandon this year from Jan 18-21st because I did not think I was healthy enough for the mandatory walking.  I did however manage to walk Riviera and Rustic on successive days with enough ease I could have gone for 36 the same day. Rustic is an easier walk than Bandon Trails even though I would climb the hill to 14 at BT 10 times before I would climb the 16th at Rustic again.  If I were playing with friends I think I would find a new tee that makes more sense somewhere between 15 green and 16 tee.

note:  I am observing the weather at Bandon trying to decide if I got lucky by not going.  The rest of the week looks to be much better than today.

[Tim Leahy]

I have played both Rustic and Barona and besides the price consideration, Rustic's greens are unique to California. Barona is a great course and in great shape compared to most public courses, but Rustic like greens with those extended fringes and challenge of pitches, long putts is unique in California where as Barona type layout and conditions are matched on many courses in Cali. Also, if you count the buffet at the Casino at Barona the food is pretty good.

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