How proud are you?

[Ron Farris]

I am currently a 1 handicap, but I really, and I mean really, enjoy playing from the same tees as my children.  It is fun for me and it give the kids a chance to see how the game can be played (albeit good and bad as my handicap is out of wack do to a couple of extraordianry rounds).  

Also, the last time I played with my father, before he passed away, he proudly played from the forward tees.  Having been educated by Alice Dye personally on the concept of forward tees this made me very proud.

[cary lichtenstein]

My question: Could you? If you were getting a bit older, and all your partners still were hitting big, but you were not, could you move up? What if it was all the way to 5000 yd? What if it was labled 'Lady's tees'? Or would you find some excuse to stop playing, pleading 'health' of 'busy' issues? Or perhaps would you insist on still playing back, no matter how out of reach GIR became?

Doug

It happened to me last year. We were playing 6850 yards and my younger friends moved back to the 7300 yard tees. I lasted 2 days and moved up to the 6600 yard tees where I belonged and where I play from today.

[Kalen Braley]

It is tough to check the ego in at the door.  I will usually go back if my partners prefer to do so up to about 6800 yards.  Anything more than that and it just gets too tough.

However something that hasn't been mentioned much on this topic is, even if you do go back, is it usually that big of a deal?

 I've found in my experience that given the choice of two sets of tees say at 6300 or 6800, there is usually only a small handful of tees (3-4) that play significantly farther, leaving most of the other holes to only play one or two clubs longer on the approach shot.  To boot on the par 5s this usually only means hitting a 80 yard pitch instead of a 50 yard pitch or no difference at all if you prefer to lay up to a certain yardage.

If its a course I play often or even more than once I don't mind playing the course farther back to experience it in a different way.  I would think that fits in with the spirit of CGA!

[ForkaB]

In friendly games I prefer to play from the middle tees, but in competitions I prefer the tips.  In the former, I'm just out to have some fun whilst in the latter I'm trying to see how good I can be under the most challenging conditions.  I haven't yet met a carry I couldn't make, but when I do I'll move up quickly and happily.

[Philippe Binette]

I don't know, but I know that golf can be fun on a 5400 yards golf course.

[Andy Troeger]

I took a trip in 2005 to Kohler and played all four courses. My Dad usually plays a 6000-6200 yard set, but the other two guys wanted to play the tips at both Whistling Straits courses. I didn't really want go torture myself, but as a 2-3 handicap I can at least get around ok. I think I shot 84 and 87 while feeling like I played well...then said I was moving up one set for Blackwolf Run. I shot slightly better scores, but at least felt like I generally had a chance! 6800 is about perfect for me to be challenged but be able to still enjoy on a tough course, more than that is pretty brutal.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A thread about 'Joe Sixpack' got me to thinking about what tees people choose, and why. I must choose short tees because, as I said there, 200 yd tees shots are a happy occasion for me; and I try to make all par-4s at least theoretically reachable in regulation.

My question: Could you? If you were getting a bit older, and all your partners still were hitting big, but you were not, could you move up?

What if it was all the way to 5000 yd? What if it was labled 'Lady's tees'?

Or would you find some excuse to stop playing, pleading 'health' of 'busy' issues? Or perhaps would you insist on still playing back, no matter how out of reach GIR became?

Doug,

There are several issues in play.

If one no longer hits the ball as far as they used to, usually, their handicap will reflect that, hence, they'll still be competitive with their buddies because their handicap will increase.

Secondly, there's a social disconnect when one person hits from one set of tees and the others hit from another set of tees.   And, golf remains a social game in the great scheme of things.

The real issue is the fun/challenge issue.

If the game ceases being fun from the back tees, not moving up will make the game difficult, in score and enjoyment.

Not long ago I went from playing the tips to playing the members tees.  
My driving distance went from 250+ to 180-200, and, I couldn't get the distance and loft needed on my irons, especially long irons.

I simply realized that my game was no longer up to the challenge presented by the tips, and, I wasn't having as much fun as I used to, by continuing to play the tips.

So, I moved up.
While it didn't solve all of my playing woes, it was more fun, more within my range of capabilities.

As I began to hit the ball farther, I moved back.

I enjoyed playing forward, it allowed me to have fun while being challenged.

Length is a desired asset and we all want to hit the ball long or longer, but, there comes a time when Father Time or health will frustrate that pursuit.  And, at that time, you have to ask yourself, do you want to continue to have fun, or do you want to tax yourself to such a degree that the game becomes less fun to play ?

If you can't make a birdie from the tips, you should move forward.

If it's rare that you make a par from the tips, you should move forward.

If you have to play with TEPaul, you should just move.  

[Doug Ralston]

Well, I may as well round off my 'confession'. Yes, I generally have to play under 5700 yds. I even play much less rather than waste time at 6200. But I usually play as a twosome with the same person, and he also plays in similar short range. We face reality. We also play for enjoyment and do not compete, ever.

Thus we will often play par-4's 350yd and down, par-3's 170yd and down, and par-5s 470 yds and down. This often means we play from different tees on the same round. Playing the very front on many par-4s, further back on many par-5s, and any range from 170yd to only 100 yd on par-3s. We find no conflict because, as I said, we are not playing for anything but our own enjoyment. We watch enough golf to know what GIR means, and we play where that goal is possible.

When we play with other players who play further back, we still play our own tees. This does not seem to cut us off too much socially, and so far I have heard not too many derogatory remarks about it.

I just wondered, if while you are getting older and hitting shorter, will your pride allow you to do this? I know if you have a handicap {I do not}, you will have to play from a rated set of tee, regardless of how far back, in order to report the round. But many newer courses now DO rate even their front tees for both men and women; at least in the USA.

Whatever, please be good to yourself and enjoy your round. I certainly do!

Doug

[Jordan Wall]

Doug,

I think that is great for you.
Too many golfers try and go beyond their ability and in turn the enjoyability factor is lost.
Golf is meant to be fun.
I'm glad you can still see that playing the back tees and not having fun is NOT what the game is about.

I personally play any sets of tees my playing partners play.
I can play blacks, yet if my partners want to go whites I go whites.
In tournaments, we play Blacks, and one course will strech to 7400 yards this year
VERY long.
Though I dont have any issue playing from there I find much more fun to play from 6800-7000, or even lower.  I like challenging the Par-5's, and challenging to hit a short club into Par-4's.
At 7400 yards, usually no Par-5's are reachable and most par-4's are driver long iron..
ugh...

[Kalen Braley]

Jordan,

Its simple.  When attempting to play a course that length from that set of tees, I just add a stroke to par on each hole.  And then those long par 4s are now reachable 5s, and  those pesky par 3s are now short par 4s.

It feels great to shoot only a handful over par in this format.  And my visit to the 19th hole is much more enjoyable afterwards!!

[Gerry B]

great points - the tips in most cases on the 7000 yd+ courses are for the big hitters and  / or the low handicapper.

here is a classic case:

played bethpage black right after the us open from the whites( middle tees) - 6700 yds -which was plenty of golf course -as the fairways were still narrow and the rough brutal. the group in front of us played from the tips and after none of them had hit the fairway on the 1st 5 holes and the green on # 3 i politely suggested that they might want to move up a tee box - to which i received the bronx cheer in response  -as they wanted to play the tiger tees. at 4 hours we were teeing off on the 12th hole -perhaps the most frustrating round of golf i have ever played.

that being said, the "front tees" on many courses are still challenging enough for the average hitter. my home course in toronto ( a men's club) has 4 tee boxes. the front tees are just over 6000 yds and the slope rating is 143. plenty of challenge for the short to medium hitter.

heck -the front tees at pine valley would still be a challenge for the short to medium hitter - there are some still forced carries.

[Ian Andrew]

I play anywhere the group wants, including the forward tees with my aging father or son, and the back tees with the idiots.

I just don't like playing the backs.

I'm under no illusion of my skill either.

[Jason Blasberg]

unfortunately for my handicap I'm very proud . . . I'm trying to avoid having the scoring round of my life from the middle markers.

I play the tips on anything under 7000 yds.  Above that I have no interest in the tips.

[rjsimper]

How many of you who do not mind which tees you play get a receipt for each round of golf you play?

[Jason Blasberg]

btw, on the vast majority of courses the difference in slope and rating from the tips to the members tees is always less than the actual score the same person would shot.

I often find guys that dont play over 6600 yards or so have poor iron games. Unless a course is chuck full of half pars anything under 6600 it's driver-8-9 iron (or less) on most 4 pars which does not properly challenge your iron game.

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

Its simple.  When attempting to play a course that length from that set of tees, I just add a stroke to par on each hole.  And then those long par 4s are now reachable 5s, and  those pesky par 3s are now short par 4s.

It feels great to shoot only a handful over par in this format.  And my visit to the 19th hole is much more enjoyable afterwards!!

The only problem is in a tournament I cant do that.  Par 4-s need to ALWAYS be reachable (there is one 490 and another 480, plus two 465), and Par-5's still need to be birdied.  
One par-5 is reachable though.  I think it's like 565 from the tips and downhill about 80 feet.  17 is 580 dead uphill and dead into the wind.  Another Par-5 is 543 and unreachable and uphill, and the other is 503 60 feet uphill and into a huge wind.
Par-3's are at a pretty standard length, though one is 230 and requires a long iron.

As much as I wish I could play the course as you say to, the cut is usually about 150 (think 75-75, or 76-74) so in tournament play I cannot think of it that way.
Maybe I should stop tournaments to further enjoy golf
 

[Tim Bert]

I am most comfortable between 6200 and 6700 yards, barring any extreme elevation changes, wind, etc.

Anything shorter than 6200 and I find that I'm hitting too many wedges to provide a good variety (no I'm not highly skilled with my wedges, but I still enjoy hitting a mix of clubs on the approach) unless the course it set up such that it forces me to club down on the tee.

Anything longer than that range and I start trying to "force" my driver and it causes bad things to happen.

I'm never going to move back to the tips (unless they are less than 7000.)  At most courses, the next set up is appropriate for me, though I have no trouble admitting I'm outmatched and moving up if needed.  Last year, we played the RTJ Trail and all decided that the Orange tees seemed appropriate.  They generally play from 6500-6800 at each course.  We were playing in March and the temps were still a little chilly and the ball wasnt going anywhere.  No one was scoring particularly well, and half way through day two we all (there were 12 of us) agreed we'd get more enjoyment out of the remainder of the trip if we moved to the white tees.  The scores got a little better, and everyone had more fun.  It's funny that no one wanted to be the one to suggest the idea, but everyone wanted to move up, including the longer hitting lower handicappers in the group.

Sometimes, on the other hand, a little distance can help.  A perfect example happened over the holidays, where I played a course twice from the white tees (I was playing with a shorter hitting partner and it was rather chilly) and shot 93 and 101.  Two days later, I returned to the same course, with a different partner, and we played the blues.  For some reason, I was more comfortable with the tee shots, and I shot 86 even though the course was playing about 300-400 yards longer.

[Tim Bert]

At Bandon, I love playing the green tees on all the courses.  On the two trips we've been out there, the overall distance seems right, and we've experienced a great variety on a hole-by-hole basis.

On the first trip out, #5 at BD was playing almost from the tips.  The second trip out, the tees were probably 50 yards up.  At #4 BD, we couldn't see the fairway from the tees the first time around.  The second time around, we barely had to carry any high grass and the fairway was in full view.  At #18 PD, the first time we played it almost 600 yards from atop the hill.  The second trip, we were at the base of the hill, playing a much shorter hole.  On each of these, I found that I had a preference after the fact, but I actually liked the fact that you get to experience a variety, even when playing the consistent set of tees.

That's why I really enjoyed the tee set-up at Ballyneal.  We played the course twice, and felt like we played 30+ unique holes.  

[Doug Siebert]

As someone who almost always plays the back tees and has no problem handling them about anywhere I don't think ego would get in the way of me moving up to the regular tees as I get older.  I'd just be moving to the tees where most men are playing anyway so its not like there would be any shame to it.

I think the real ego moment would be when I'm really up in years and can't hack the regular tees any longer and need to move up to the senior tees.  If I'm anything like my dad and his friends I'll probably hang onto playing the regular tees about 5 or 6 years too long before I admit to myself I need to move up.

[A.G._Crockett]

I will play whatever the group plays, and I don't mind moving forward a bit; like many of you, it'll be tough to play forward of the group.  But I can see a day coming when I'll do that to enjoy the game.

I like 6500-6700; above that seems both too difficult and uninteresting.  I just hit the same shots over and over, and they are hard shots.

[Ian Andrew]

Jason,

I often find guys that dont play over 6600 yards or so have poor iron games. Unless a course is chuck full of half pars anything under 6600 it's driver-8-9 iron (or less) on most 4 pars which does not properly challenge your iron game.

Are you a single digit handicap?

[Jamey Bryan]

Setting fair "Rules of Competition" can make it easier for players to move up a box when age or infirmity causes loss of distance.

My home club has an afternoon "dogfight" which uses a modified Stableford point system where a point quota is calculated by subtracting the "course handicap" for a player from 36.  Regular players include a former touring pro who's a +4 from the tips, and a 79 year old gentleman who's a 31 from the most forward tees.  There's a 6 stroke difference in the course rating from the back to the front tees, so the pro's quota is 40 while the old fellow's is 11 (36-31+6).  The winners (individual, or usually two or three man teams) are the most over quota.

I've seen all four sets of tees in use by a single group at times.  Everyone plays where they have a reasonable chance of getting to the green in regulation, we play in around 3 hours, and everyone has a blast!

Jamey

[Doug Ralston]

Jamey;

I never play competitively, but THAT sounds like fun!

Doug