[PThomas]

opinions please...did Jack try to do too much with the bunker in the middle of the green and HUGE contours in the green?

would it have been better with just one of these features?

[Brad Klein]

Paul,

you forget to add that the question needs to be further considered in light of the two preceding par-3s, the 3rd and the 5th, each of whose greens are, well, extremely intense in their own right with uncontrollable falloffs all around (and within).

[Scott Szabo]

Paul,

Any pictures of that particular green for us to look at?

Scott

[PThomas]

a good point Brad...esp #5, where one can, if not careful putting across the green, have the ball slide too much toward the front of the green and then off of it and down the hill

[PThomas]

Paul,

Any pictures of that particular green for us to look at?

Scott

no Scott  I don't

I'll see if I can get some help doing that

[Tom Renli]

Paul, in my opinion and in short it is a yes for me.  My fear or expectation prior to playing is that the course would be too narrow off the tee given the wind and tall grass.  After playing, the landing areas seemed fair, the movement in the greens is what sticks out in my mind.

The 5th green seemed very difficult to hit.  My reaction to the 10th green was "overdone".  The pin was back left on 10 the day I played.  If you hit it over the bunker and on the green, seems like few get close and the majority end up in a very similar position give the contours.  Cheers, Tom

[Jordan Wall]

This better work ... #5:

[PThomas]

This better work ... #5:

that's the one I putted off of

[Jerry Kluger]

What's interesting to me is the idea that JN would take such risks - it would have been much more conceivable to me had Pete Dye been presented with that piece of property and come up with the overall experience that is Dismal River.  It is very demanding, perhaps overly so if viewed as a course to be played over and over again. The 10th is perhaps the most severe hole on the course and any recovery shot to a front pin requires such precision that it is arguably too severe.

[cary lichtenstein]

I thought it was an excellent hole, a lot of fun, Bette had a tape in birdie, I had a 10 footer that i  missed, the pin was in the front.

[Jim Franklin]

I thought the bunker in the middle was great, but for such a HUGE green, I thought there were maybe 4 spots to put a pin. I thought the entire left side was unpinnable. If the green was softened a bit, I think the green would be awesome. #5 was a good green, but Brad is right that 3, 5, and 10 were all the same severely sloping greens.

[Brad Klein]

Jim Franklin, they were NOT the same:

three was unputtable
five was unholdable
ten was merely unbelievable

[W.H. Cosgrove]

How about unplayable?

[Jim Franklin]

Brad -

They were the same in that they were all "over the top".

[Jerry Kluger]

Gentlemen:  I played the course right after it opened and I thought they had some conditioning issues which were being addressed.  Do you think that conditioning can take care of some of the issues?  Also, if I remember correctly, the par 3s are not extremely long as they are all under 200 yards from the tips - I should mention that I did not play the course from the tips, but it would seem to me that anyone playing from the tips would not be using a long iron.

[Jim Franklin]

Jerry -

#5 was over 200 from the tips and I thought #10 was too. I remember hitting 4 or 5 iron to each. #10 had a back pin and since the green is 60 yards deep, it made for a long iron approach. Conditioning would not change the fact that the greens were over the top with undulations/slope and no pin placements.

Ballyneal, on the other hand, had severely sloped greens, but you had at least 9 distinct pin placements on each green. That, in my opinion, is a huge difference compared to DR.

[Scott Szabo]

Ballyneal, on the other hand, had severely sloped greens, but you had at least 9 distinct pin placements on each green. That, in my opinion, is a huge difference compared to DR.

Jim, to the contrary, when I played Ballyneal, one in my group openly questioned whether there would be many playable pins on #7.  

The green speeds at Ballyneal may allow for pins that might not be usable at higher speeds, but I doubt that you can find 9 distinct pin positions on each green as you say.

[Jerry Kluger]

Jim: I was taking yardages from their website but to me the distance wasn't the issue; it was the precision that was required as to how far to hit it and that could be very difficult as it is most often very windy in the sand hills. The greens at Ballyneal were clearly not as severe as those at DR.

[Jay Flemma]

I absolutely believe the green countours...sometimes as much as three feet or more in places are over done...but you also have to factor in that the greed speeds...call it 9.5-10 and thats being GENEROUS...are just too much for the contour.

I actually like 5 green...the approach to the green is much more severe than the green itself...you just cant miss any where except long and left and then you still likely three-putt.

Also, it is a particularly penal hole because of the severity of the surrounds.  That takes alot of the strategy out of the lions mouth aspect of the hole...which rewards the ground game as well.

[PThomas]

the green reminded me of Tom D's wild green at Lost Dunes - I can never remember which hole....so perhaps if the hole didn't have a bunker in the middle of it........and it was not a short par 3 either where you are hitting 8 or 9 iron.....

[Jim Franklin]

Tom D had a few wild greens at Lost Dunes, but I think you are referring to #4 the par 5. That certainly is a better green with a wedge rather than a long iron.

And Scott, #7 may be the only green at Ballyneal that I did not notice 9 pin placements because I had a 6" putt for birdie . I thought it was a pretty cool looking green nonetheless.

[Jim Franklin]

Do you think we can get this thread on the 10th at Dismal to go as long as the 10th at Merion thread?

 

[PThomas]

Do you think we can get this thread on the 10th at Dismal to go as long as the 10th at Merion thread?

 

oh my God Jim, I hope not!

I think my only post on that monster was :"my fingers get tired jsut thinking about you guys typing all that"!

[Jim Franklin]

Back to the original topic, I think the green would be pretty cool with the bunker in the middle with everything softened up a bit. I don't think bunkers in the middle of greens should be the next fad, but every once in a while is pretty cool.

[PThomas]

Back to the original topic, I think the green would be pretty cool with the bunker in the middle with everything softened up a bit. I don't think bunkers in the middle of greens should be the next fad, but every once in a while is pretty cool.

yea, that's what's I was driving at too Jim...probably better to do as you say, or perhaps have no bunker and then wilder slopes

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