Courses that lack variety on the par 3s

[Chris_Clouser]

I was wondering if anyone had seen anything like this before.  I played a course this weekend, the same one I commented on in the yardage marker thread, that had 6 par 3s.  It is a par 68.  The odd thing was that the par 3s are all the same distance 165 yards.  I also noticed the course has 4 short par 4s of 330 yards.  This was a course built by a local.  Do you think he has a club he can hit 165 yards pretty consistently or something?  Has anyone else ever seen anything like this?  Aside from the repetitiveness of the distance on some shots there were some nice holes, even a hole that is somewhat of a punchbowl in nature.  

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

A couple of years ago we had a GD panelist out at The Ocean Course who mentioned that all of our par 3s were set up at approximately the same length.  We hadn't really thought of it but when we checked he was right.  It was just a happenstance that that day, all of the blue tee markers were set at that distance (reagent to the pin placement).  Since that day, we've made a concerted effort to make sure that the par 3 distances vary throughout the course...

[Chris_Clouser]

The really bad part about it is that 3 of the par 3s are consecutive and are preceded by one of the short par 4s.  And all of them go in the same exact direction and have the exact same hole design.  The other 3 par 3s are somewhat different from each other, but I think this was a case of the owner trying to squeeze in 18 holes and had a particular length of hole he preferred.

It has nothing to do with tee boxes being moved.

Needless to say if you can hit a good shot 160 yards consistently you will score well on this course.  Too bad that really is between clubs for me as I almost always leave the ball short of go long each time I play those holes.  

[ian]

Even some great courses have similar distances on many of there threes. St. Georges has four of the five par threes play between 203 and 208. Still a great course, but it always bothered me.

[John_Conley]

All five of the par 3s at Golden Valley are about 165.  I still love the course, but always preach about the importance of a variety for the par 3s.

[Chris Edge]

A highly regarded "links style" CCFAD in northern NJ has such an issue. 3 of the 4 par 3s always seem to play about 165 yards over water from the middle tees. In fact 2 of the holes are mirror reflections of each other on the same water hazard and are encountered on the same 9. The green complexes add some interest, but to say this collection of par 3s merely lacks variety is to be far too kind.    

[Mike_Cirba]

Chris;

That drawback is clearly the achilles heel of Ballyowen, which is a very fine course, otherwise.  

[Matt_Ward]

Chris Edge:

Have to disagree with you just a bit about Ballyowen. Just like Mike Vegis mentioned it all depends on the tee positions you played that day.

The 6th at Ballyowen can play nearly 200 yards from the tips and goes in a south to north direction. Generally it plays downwind and the water is really only an issue when the pin is cut hard right.

The 11th plays in the same direction but the green is a bit smaller and less "user friendly" if you pull or push the approach. It can also vary in length.

The 15th hole goes in a north to south direction, plays generally into the wind and is more elevated than the other two. Try playing the hole from the back tee where the 12th is located. It adds about 20-25 yards to the hole and makes for an exciting play!

I don't doubt there are similarities but I would hesitate to go as far as saying they lack variety. If you want a better exmaple try a sister course -- Crystal Springs -- there you have the same type of approach shot on #4, #8, #12 and #15. I left off the 10th because the green is so utterly different and the varied tee pads can make a major differences in what club you use.

[Chris Edge]

Mike:

Agreed.

Matt:

Part of my point (which I should have been more clear about) is that the blue markers for all three holes always seem to be set at the same distance when I play there (admittedly less than a half a dozen times a year or so). I certainly don't dispute the fact each of the holes can be a diffucult 3 from the black tees or that you can't use the same club on 11 and 15 from the same distance in the wind. Visually its just deja vu. I take your point w/r/t Crystal, although visually and with the elevation changes, these holes each have a different look. There is also a difference in the hazards one has to carry. If you're short on 4,8,12 & 15 you've got recovery shots from a deep steep faced bunker, a drop area, a pitch up from the rough and a play from a flat waste bunker. If you're short on 6, 11 and 15 you walk to the drop area 3 times. I've always cynically suspected that Rulewhich felt he needed to add some slope to the card and did it with the water carries.      

[somalley]

Chris,

Unfortunately I have seen something like that before...basically every Nicklaus course I have ever played!  Every one from the back tees are 200+ hero holes.  How about mixing in a nice short one with a postage stamp green and interesting bunkering?!