[Mitch St. Peter]

I have always enjoyed the matches I have played at Lake Merced.  While I think it is not the course that SFGC, OC, or Harding is, it does belong to be mentioned in that group.  It has some great, memorable, San Francisco holes.


I wonder if other San Francisco natives know much about the history of the course. From what I have found, design is attributed to Robert Muir Graves (who also did work at San Geronimo) and has been touched significantly by Rees Jones in the last decade.  I know Graves has done work at other places but I can't remember where.

 I have also heard that McKenzie may be originally designed the course or had some influence on it.

What is true in all this mess and what are people's thought about Lake Merced compared to its peers around the Lake?

[Eric_Terhorst]

Mitch,

I used to live in San Francisco and therefore am lucky to have a couple of pals who are members.  I was not aware the design was originally Graves, but your post prompted a Google search, which turned up several guide listings attributing it to Graves.  I have never heard of a MacKenzie connection.

Graves also worked on Sonoma Golf Club, one of my favorites in Northern California, and the Sea Ranch Links.  Like Lake Merced, both have interesting routings, lots of variety in the holes, and strategic interest.  I think Lake Merced is much better than Harding, but I haven't played the latter recently.  The OClub and SFGC are each in a class all their own, but I like your suggestion that there are "San Francisco holes."  The Lake, the Pacific Ocean, the sandy topography, and the wind all influence play on these courses.  

The work at Lake Merced by Jones was done 6-7? years ago.  I thought the course improved (and was made more difficult), and I like the new bunkering, but some members will quibble.  I thoroughly enjoy it, and on my last visit in October, the maintenance philosophy seemed to reflect a preference for "fast and firm"--which I thought was great, but which again I understand some members are not thrilled with.  

[Bill_McBride]

The San Francisco lads can get into this in much greater detail, but Lake Merced goes way back, long before the days of Robert Muir Graves.  MacKenzie did indeed have a hand in early reworking of the course, with some great photos on this web site of the bunkering he created.  Like several SF courses, the building of I-280 caused some serious changes to the course in recent decades, and I think that's where Graves' hand can be seen in the current course.  By no means is it an "original Robert Muir Graves design."

Graves also did some fairly recent redesign work at Sonoma Golf Club, which goes back to the 1920's.

Some of the Northern California historians can pitch in here to fill in the details........

[Aaron Katz]

I am not certain who did the "original" Lake Merced design, but it was "remodeled" by Dr. MacKenzie in 1929.   I know that others on this site -- perhaps Tom MacWood -- have posted pictures of the MacKenzie Lake Merced.  It looked hardly anything like it does today.  The tree growth had not yet occurred, and it had a far rougher, sandier look.  The bunkers were lacy-edged (some looked almost Cypress Point-like), as opposed to the bland, flat bottomed bunkers on most the holes today.  

There apparently was a "redesign" in 1969, which I assume is what is attributed to Graves.  Rees Jones's remodel was about a dozen years ago -- it was finished by at least 1996, though some more work might have been done post-1999 (not sure about this).  The USGA has indicated that much of Jones work was agronomically-necessitated.  While I never played the pre-Jones version, I do know that the first few years of remodel (1997 - 99), the greens and fairways remained in fairly poor condition for a wealthy club -- the drainage was only so-so, the grass was thin and overwatered, and the greens grainy.  

I never really like the golf course all that much.  It is a windy site -- far windier than either SFGC or Olympic, in my experience -- yet the turf conditions were not conducive to the ground game.  The course just seemed boring to me.  The site did not make use of the topography nearly as well as Olympic Club, and didn't have the charm of SFGC.  The pictures of the MacKenzie layout indicate that the course could have been a really special place.  The Rees Jones version looks like little more than an attempt to get a Women's U.S. Open (an attempt that initially succeeded, although ultimately the USGA decided not to go through with it).

[Mitch St. Peter]

Great stuff guys and I look forward to more from other locals.

Eric's comment about Sonoma GC is also appreciated.  I worked for the Charles Schwab Cup at that site for the summer of 2005 and got to play the course 2-3 times a week.

Its a great track, both challenging and fair.  I do remember now tha Graves had a hand in it although the club hype's its original design by Sam Whiting (of "olympic club fame" as they call it").  

Definitily one of the good old courses in the Napa Valley and a course which doesn't get that much play surprisingly between the Fairmont Mission Inn traffic and the 250 members at the club.  (the 200K initiation fee might have something to do with that).  I feel it almost has an unwarranted stigma from being just a "Champions Tour" course: it is far more than that.

I actually like it better than Lake Merced.

I also share Aaaron's feelings at times for the holes at LM.  There are some boring holes and I also regret the placement of the driving range next to 18 ruining the view of a strong finishing hole

However, there is a great par 3 on the course (15 I think) and some stern par fours on the back nine which make up for some boring holes on the front nine in my opinion.

The USGA seems to like it to with the '90 Junior Am there, the Women's Open given and then taken away, and the annual U.S. Open Sectionals there which are always fun to watch

[Joshua Pettit]

Tully, you should be all over this thread.  I'll wait a bit for his response, and if hes a no show then I'll throw in my two cents.

[Glenn Spencer]

Great stuff guys and I look forward to more from other locals.

Eric's comment about Sonoma GC is also appreciated.  I worked for the Charles Schwab Cup at that site for the summer of 2005 and got to play the course 2-3 times a week.

Its a great track, both challenging and fair.  I do remember now tha Graves had a hand in it although the club hype's its original design by Sam Whiting (of "olympic club fame" as they call it").  

Definitily one of the good old courses in the Napa Valley and a course which doesn't get that much play surprisingly between the Fairmont Mission Inn traffic and the 250 members at the club.  (the 200K initiation fee might have something to do with that).  I feel it almost has an unwarranted stigma from being just a "Champions Tour" course: it is far more than that.

I actually like it better than Lake Merced.

I also share Aaaron's feelings at times for the holes at LM.  There are some boring holes and I also regret the placement of the driving range next to 18 ruining the view of a strong finishing hole

However, there is a great par 3 on the course (15 I think) and some stern par fours on the back nine which make up for some boring holes on the front nine in my opinion.

The USGA seems to like it to with the '90 Junior Am there, the Women's Open given and then taken away, and the annual U.S. Open Sectionals there which are always fun to watch

Mitch,

The 1990 US Junior had the highest cut in the history of the event at 163 and Tiger lost here, quite an historic Junior.

[Bill_McBride]

Great stuff guys and I look forward to more from other locals.

Eric's comment about Sonoma GC is also appreciated.  I worked for the Charles Schwab Cup at that site for the summer of 2005 and got to play the course 2-3 times a week.

Its a great track, both challenging and fair.  I do remember now tha Graves had a hand in it although the club hype's its original design by Sam Whiting (of "olympic club fame" as they call it").  

Definitily one of the good old courses in the Napa Valley and a course which doesn't get that much play surprisingly between the Fairmont Mission Inn traffic and the 250 members at the club.  (the 200K initiation fee might have something to do with that).  I feel it almost has an unwarranted stigma from being just a "Champions Tour" course: it is far more than that.

I actually like it better than Lake Merced.

I also share Aaaron's feelings at times for the holes at LM.  There are some boring holes and I also regret the placement of the driving range next to 18 ruining the view of a strong finishing hole

However, there is a great par 3 on the course (15 I think) and some stern par fours on the back nine which make up for some boring holes on the front nine in my opinion.

The USGA seems to like it to with the '90 Junior Am there, the Women's Open given and then taken away, and the annual U.S. Open Sectionals there which are always fun to watch

Mitch, the Sonoma Golf Club is in the Sonoma Valley, not the Napa Valley!  

Sam Whiting was indeed the original designer, back in the 20's, and nothing much changed until much later.  I played high school matches there in the '50s.  There were beautiful "horse country" white rail fences around all the tees - since lost to maintenance budgets.  The bunkering was excellent.  I haven't played it since Graves' design team, including our No Cal GCA Neal Meagher, made changes in the '90s I think.  #1 was changed to make room for a driving range.

Sean Tully is the expert and hopefully he will chime in soon.

[David Stamm]

Bill, didn't Sam Snead say that Sonoma was his Fav. course. I seem to remember hearing something like that.

[Bill_McBride]

Not course, David, but routing.  He was once reported to have said that Sonoma Golf Club was his favorite routing. I've quoted that several times here on GCA.  Sam was referring to Sonoma's Muirfield-type routing plan.  The front nine goes clockwise around the perimeter of the property, with the back nine anti-clockwise inside the front nine.  The holes go in different directions, making the wind constantly changing, and the OB is always on the left, protecting the poor dub slicers.

This is how Muirfield in Scotland is routed.  CB MacDonald used the same routing trick at Chicago Golf Club directly to his benefit, as apparently his standard ball flight was left to right.  Old CB was not above taking advantage of any opportunity to improve his chances of victory!

[David Stamm]

Thanks for clarifying that. I know I've heard alot of the Champions Tour players praise it. I noticed you noted Sam Whiting designed the course. Do you think Watson assisted him? Do we know?

[Bill_McBride]

I'm not sure, and hope Sean Tully does pitch in.

[Mitch St. Peter]

Indeed Bill is right on...

Snead once responsed to a question about his favorite "layout" from a San Francisco Examiner reporter and said, "Sir, it's a course you have probably never heard of. It's the Sonoma Golf Course."

According to the club officials i've talked with (they may or may not have done an exhaustive reseach), SGC was just a Whiting design.

Does anyone know how Whiting and Watson first met and where they first collaborated....I'm an interested OC member in search of this history.

Any more history on SGC and Whiting, or about history, Mackenzie and thoughts on Lake Merced would be great...

[Jonathan McCord]

Yeah Sean, pitch in, would ya!!!!

The course resembles Medinah #3 on a much smaller scale.  Some of the green sites and the bunkering are very reminiscent of what I saw while at the PGA.  Certainly a Rees Jones look.  They have suffered a nematode problem as of late, but the greens were still rolling OK.  There are some neat holes out there, and it would be neat to see some of the older pictures of the course.  

Here are some pictures of my recent outing there.

Approach to Par 4 13th


Par 3 12th Green with a Great Cypress Tree


Teeshot of the Par 3 12th


Behind the Green on the Par 4 10th, One must challenge the trees on the right to get the best angle into this green.


Awesome Downhill Par 3 3rd


One of the toughest Par 4's I've played.  The 4th is a 430 yd. brute, up the hill to a green with a shoulder on the right which kicks away anything close to that side.


Teeshot on the Par 5 18th, Great Cypress Trees on either side of the green narrowing the uphill approach


Shortish Par 4 16th, One of the better green setting on the course

[Michael Robin]

That US Junior I believe was the site of the last USGA match that Tiger  ever lost.

Another good Graves layout is La Purisima in Lompoc. Very difficult as it was built in a wind tunnel from the ocean thru a pass to Buellton. A couple of good strategy holes such as 4, and a very unique and I think cool downhill/uphill par 4 7th cut around a grove of trees.

[Bill_McBride]

Indeed Bill is right on...

Snead once responsed to a question about his favorite "layout" from a San Francisco Examiner reporter and said, "Sir, it's a course you have probably never heard of. It's the Sonoma Golf Course."
According to the club officials i've talked with (they may or may not have done an exhaustive reseach), SGC was just a Whiting design.
Does anyone know how Whiting and Watson first met and where they first collaborated....I'm an interested OC member in search of this history.
Any more history on SGC and Whiting, or about history, Mackenzie and thoughts on Lake Merced would be great...

Mitch, I wish I'd known that when I played a very fun round with Mike Benham and Kevin Reilley the Thursday before the Big Game.  My wife and I had a great trip to SF the week after Thanksgiving, highlighted for me by rounds at Meadow Club and O Club Lake.  Maybe next time!

[Mitch St. Peter]

Bill I'm glad you liked the OC...and would love to play if you are back out West again!....however it appears my time is running out as I am moving to Manhattan this summer to enter "the real world."

[Bill_McBride]

Bill I'm glad you liked the OC...and would love to play if you are back out West again!....however it appears my time is running out as I am moving to Manhattan this summer to enter "the real world."

Remind me to introduce you to David Mulle, a young attorney in NYC who is a member of Inwood CC, a historic club near JFK Airport.  I think he lives in Brooklyn and works in Manhattan.

Actually, there are a fair number of GCAers who live and work in the immediate NYC area.  

[Glenn Spencer]

That US Junior I believe was the site of the last USGA match that Tiger  ever lost.

Another good Graves layout is La Purisima in Lompoc. Very difficult as it was built in a wind tunnel from the ocean thru a pass to Buellton. A couple of good strategy holes such as 4, and a very unique and I think cool downhill/uphill par 4 7th cut around a grove of trees.

It was the only time that he lost in the Junior, but he lost in the Amateur from 91-93.

[Michael Robin]

Glenn, but of course. I stand corrected. Thanks.

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

A link to a past Lake Merced thread :

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17290

Hope it helps.

[Eric_Terhorst]

Jonathan, thanks for the pictures.  The old thread and the pictures show definitively that Lake Merced and "boring" don't go together.  If you're bored at that course, you might consider another avocation.

There is certainly a need for aerial shot-making as the pictures illustrate (#12, for example).  But the ground game is an option (and potentially the better option) on 1, 5, 7, 11, 14, and 15.  On the par-3 eighth with the pin up, play short of the green and carefully run it up to the pin from there or 9/10 times you're looking at 4 or more.

When I was there in October just before the Club Championship, the greens were magnificent.

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