[Jeff_Lewis]

I have played neither, but (BIAS?) I find it inconceivable that Concession is better.  OK, that is based on pictures and prior experience, but please, has somebody played both who can talk about why Concession is so much better?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jeff, I have only seen 5 holes during grow in at Ballyneal. I have played Concession They are so very different it is a tough call even if I had played Ballyneal. The Concession is a very good course. It is the best new course I have seen in Florida. My guess is after I see Ballyneal I will think it is better.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Having not played either, I wonder how many people here just ASSUME that Balleyneal is better because of who's name is on the course. I know it's had to believe, but Jack and Co. have done some really good stuff as of late. Not everyone falls in love with over the top greens and blow out style bunkering and courses by the chosen ones. But pics alone, and given the chance, I'd play Concession first. I like the way the bunkering looks for a Nicklaus courses, it's tough as nails and the conditioning is flawless, but this is just my opinion. I'm sure that most shots at Concession are laid out in front of the golfer and not too much is trick up liked several of the recent favorites. (not naming names...y'all can figure that out...)

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[cary lichtenstein]

I'm sure the Concession is a blend of the Bear Club and The Ritz, I know JN style here in Florida. It is so very different from the topography and style done at Ballyneal that they can not be compared.

That said, after I play Concession, I will report

[Andy Troeger]

Is there no one out there that has played both of these courses?  

I find it inconceivable    that we have had discussion about the GD list without having actually played all the golf courses in question!!  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Cary, it is not like any Jack course I have ever seen. I would not assume anything. It will blow you away if you do. The traps are often great sometimes busy. The strategy is real and good. The green complexes are very good. I was told Jim Lipe was not part of this team so we cannot call upon him for guidance to his toughts behind the course. The routing is great. It is on 500 acres with no housing.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I will do a hole by hole in a few days after i get home and have a little time to think.

[Scott Szabo]

Thanks in advance, Tiger.  Looking forward to the hole-by-hole.

[Frank Sullivan]

I will do a hole by hole in a few days after i get home and have a little time to think.

Hey Tiger,

There are several wonderful picture threads for Ballyneal....just wondering if you could post your hole-by-hole of The Concession....or at least the raw collection of pictures you have....that would be great!!!!!

[Andy Troeger]

Played Ballyneal last year and Concession this year. You'd be hard pressed to pick two courses that are more different. I do like a lot of Jack's stuff, but I'll take Ballyneal for a better variety of holes and more playability.

[Greg Ohlendorf]

I completely agree with Andy. These are two very different golf courses. That said, I'd give the nod to Ballyneal. Just a more interesting piece of property and obviously terrain. One thing that I thought was interesting at the Concession was the huge gap between the yardages of the back and the next set of tees. I'm not looking at a card right now but if I remember correctly it was like 7400 to 6600 and change. The back tees seemed like they were in a different universe!

Greg

[Jim Nugent]

Having not played either, I wonder how many people here just ASSUME that Balleyneal is better because of who's name is on the course.

We've seen lots of GCA threads on Ballyneal.  Tons of pictures.  Everyone who has played it seems to think it's fantastic.  

Many posters have also played lots of Jack's courses.  They usually find them not quite at the same high level as the top courses in the world.  This is not just a GCA bias.  Most raters and magazines agree.  Jack has no courses in GM's U.S. top 90, at least, no courses his team designed alone.  Only one of his courses breaks the top 100, at #98.  

So it seems like Jack designs and builds lots of real good courses.  Few truly memorable ones, though, and none usually counted among the world's best.  

Ballyneal unfolds over beautiful sandy dunes, reminiscent of the finest links courses.  The
Concession plays over mostly flat Florida land.  Ballyneal sounds like fun for everyone.  The Concession sounds like a beast that only scratch golfers are likely to enjoy.  e.g. GCA poster Andy Troeger the other day said:

"The course is very difficult in just about every aspect for anyone short of a professional. I found the individual holes to be very well considered and designed in most aspects, but there does become a redundancy with the course as a hole when you have one tough hole after another with water features and difficult greens."

Actually, Andy was talking there about Old Corksrew.  He said same points apply to The Concession, but the Concession is even harder.

Doesn't surprise me in the least that many here expect Ballyneal to be a better course.  Lots of non-GCA'ers agree.  

[Jonathan Cummings]

I've played them both and agree with Andy and Greg.  I think Concession is an excellent course - probably top 5 Nicklaus.  Ballyneal is equally excellent for different reasons - easily top 5 Doak.  The nod for me goes to Ballyneal - it is simply a better and more fun layout to play day in/day out.

JC

[Andy Troeger]

I wouldn't put Concession among Jack's finest that I've played personally. Out of 20 courses, that honor would go to Castle Pines and Muirfield Village. I could see arguments either way as to whether either one of those layouts are comparable in quality to Ballyneal, and they're all top 100 in my opinion in any case. Nicklaus' newer stuff, including Concession, Promontory in Utah, Broadmoor's Mountain Course, and Old Corkscrew, all left with me with similar impressions as quoted in Jim Nugent's post above. To paraphrase myself, they all have many good individual holes and design, but are just brutally difficult to the point of losing points on the fun scale. One exception to that was Cougar Canyon in Colorado--still difficult from the tips but much more playable for everyone else from the up tees while maintaining strategic interest and interesting shots.

[Matt_Ward]

Jonathan:

You say Concession is a top five Nicklaus.

That's high company indeed.

Please fill in the blanks with the other four (4) you see being a part of that grouping.

Thanks ...

[Scott_Burroughs]

I've also played both and agree with what's been said above, but find the difference bigger than they do (or stated).  The Concession is very good, top 3 Nicklaus I've played along with Pronghorn & Dismal River, but it's no Ballyneal, which I'd put in my Top 5 courses played (granted my list is by no means top heavy).

[Tom_Doak]

This was a pretty silly thread. 

Everyone makes so much of whose name is on the course, but the more important question is usually, "How good was the piece of land they had to work with?"  And Ballyneal is one of the best pieces of land ANYBODY has had to work with in the last 75 years or so.

The Concession must be very good to deserve strong comparisons, and hats off to Jack and his team for getting there on a piece of Florida ground.

[TX Golf]

Nicklaus has Mayacama, Muirfield Village, and Castle Pines which are all ranked comfortably within the top 100 in the US.

[Jim Colton]

I'm not sure I agree with the name-game logic.  If you took Ballyneal and Dismal River as is, but assumed Doak designed Dismal and Jack designed Ballyneal, do you think most here would automatically prefer Dismal River?  The simple fact of the matter is Ballyneal is a blast to play and sits on a fantastic piece of property...no matter if it was designed by Tom, Jack or my 4-year old daughter.  If Concession is in the same category or close to the same category, then it must be a great golf course.  The more, the merrier.

[Frank Sullivan]

I was just hoping to see some pics of Concession

[Eric Smith]

I was just hoping to see some pics of Concession

Check this out:

Hole-by-hole photo tour of The Concession

[David_Madison]

Concession was definitely among the top few Nicklaus courses I've played. My primary criticism is along the lines of the earlier comment about the huge gap between the back tees and the next set. In Goldilocks and the 3 Bears terms, the tips were too long and the next set too short. Something in-between would have been just right.

I'm in the 0-2 handicap range and I typically drive it 265-280, so my perspective might not be typical. But, I would have liked to have played something in between on a number of holes, as the strategic values were so much stronger from the tips but the holes just too long. Cutting 20-30 yards off here and there would have made a huge difference in playability while maintaining plenty of challenge and strategic interest. And there were some cases where I couldn't get to the trouble that stronger players could reach, so those holes would actually have been more interesting if made a little shorter.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Matt - I have always thought the top 4 JN courses (of the 50 or so I've seen) are:

Muirfield Villiage
Pronghorn
Mayacama
Castle Pines

Bear's Club, Concession, Outlaw and Vahalla are my personal next 4 JN courses.

JC

[Tom_Doak]

Jonathan:

Are all of those better than Sebonack in your ranking, or was Sebonack exempt because of the co-design?

[Adam Clayman]

Jeff Lewis,
 You must forgive me. When we met, the words asking you if you'd played Ballyneal almost left my lips until I realized who I was talking to. It was an assumption that you had played there.
 Please consider yourself welcome to visit our little corner of the world anytime. Sadly, we have no trees for Ran to play shots off of, but, I think you'll be able to appreciate the courses uniqueness, regardless.

May I suggest a Mid-Late May visit?

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