Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?

[Larry_Rodgers]

Some of you folks can very brutal with comments so I have been careful on past posts, however the subject of yardage markers on sprinklers has come up and it seems everyone has an opinion.
I am doing a final walk-thru on a newly constructed course and the irrigation specifications calls for the irrigation sprinklers to have yardage markers on them.

Does this take away or enhance the golfing experience?
Does this slow play?
Does this take away from the skill?
Should they be to the front or middle of the green?
Where is the middle exactly? front to back and at which approach angle?
Where should they start and stop?
Are they only needed in the fairway?
If the hole has a dogleg, just where is the turning point to determine the length of the hole?

Thank-you for allowing this post and I hope not to be crucified by too many traditionalists as the question comes up during the planning stages.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Well, I'll take a stab at some of these.

Does this take away or enhance the golfing experience?
I think it doesn't add or detract from an experience.  It is like whether the course has little towels hanging from the ball washer.  If it doesn't, big deal, I'll use the towel hanging from my bag.

Does this slow play?
Probably on the whole it helps the speed of play, unless the sprinkler heads are hard to find and guys walk around like they are looking for a contact lens.

Does this take away from the skill?
IMHO, judging distance used to be a required skill, but I think that is no longer the case because such information is so readily available.

Should they be to the front or middle of the green?
As long as you are consistent, it shouldn't matter.  However, most courses mark things to the middle.

Where is the middle exactly? front to back and at which approach angle?
I would imagine front to back, and measured from the spot that the sprinkler head is at.  So that takes angle into account.

Where should they start and stop?
Longest should be 240ish on par 5s and 210 or so on par 4s.  Anything longer than that should instead say "HIT IT YOU JACKASS".  Shorter than 80 yds is a waste.  I played a course that had a marker at 39 yds!

Are they only needed in the fairway?
Yes, otherwise you'll be marking everything under the sun.

If the hole has a dogleg, just where is the turning point to determine the length of the hole?
Mark a sprinkler on a dogleg that has a clear shot to the green.

[mike_beene]

Since the subject came up,it irritates me on a par 5 when the sprinkler has a wisecrack instead of yardage.No,I'm not going to hit it 350 but I don't want to lay up to 70 yards .Also,my sometimes tuned wedge game has swings for 40,50 and 60 yards.My poorly tuned eyes which sport thick glasses often cant tell the yardage.Mark the short ones to.

[Rick Shefchik]

Mike --

Thank you.

I was agreeing with just about everything Kevin had to say until he got to the distance limits of the sprinkler head markings.

If a course chooses to refrain from putting distances on sprinkler heads, I won't complain. I grew up playing on courses that had 150 yard stakes, and I learned to eyeball distances before I even figured out that you could pace off your distance from the 150 yard stake. I'd be willing to go back to that arrangement.

But now that most courses mark their sprinkler heads, I've mostly lost that ability, and have instead come to depend on the available yardage information. And when I'm playing an unreachable par 5 (in other words, almost all of them) it irks me no end to try to determine the ideal layup distance for my second shot, only to encounter a sprinkler head that says, "Dreamer" or "Just hit it!" etc.

I suppose they're getting a big laugh in the pro shop, but what they're really doing is telling players to play stupid golf -- something I've been trying very hard not to do as I get older.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Mike and Rick, I understand your point, and my suggestion for the label on those sprinkler heads was totally in jest (I've actually never seen one), but where would you draw the line?  Mike would like to have the distance marked at 350 yds, I'm not sure where you'd like it Rick, but the logical extension could be made that EVERY sprinkler head should be labeled, since even a head 400 yds away on a par 5 could influence someone's layup choice.  And in my opinion that makes a golf hole feel like a football field, with every quadrant measured and labeled.  

[JakaB]

Larry,

Go ahead and put markers on the sprinkler heads...those of us who don't like em simply don't have to look.   I am afraid if you don't you will either...at great expense...install them later or put up ugly posts indicating distance.   I would also install a ballwasher on the first and tenth tee only.   Please just put one distance on the sprinkler head...front, middle and back distances on the same head are insulting and confusing.  I prefer brushed aluminum with etched numbers to yellow plastic plates.  

[Mike Melvin]

JakaB,

Next you are going to be asking for waterfalls !

[Scott_Burroughs]

I will disagree with the suggestion of only putting yardage distances on the ones in the fairway.  Most players probably hit fewer than 50% of fairways on the drive (like my game lately, more like 15%), and having to go out into the fairway and search for one, then adjusting for the extra distance from the wider angle of play just slows things down.

[Chris_Clouser]

As long as they are accurate, it doesn't really matter to me what type of marker they use.  I played a course this weekend where the markers were easily off by about 20 yards.  I wonder how this can happen until I saw someone mowing on the course yesterday on the way home.  They use stakes just off the fairway to indicate yardage.  This yahoo was taking up the stakes as he was mowing and putting them back in.  Obviously not in the same spot.  So that would explain why I hit a 150 yard nine iron.  At least if you go by their markers.  

[Robert_Walker]

I would put yardages on EVERY SINGLE Sprinkler Head, and the distance would be to the FRONT edge of the green. Like Barney says, if you don't like them, then ignore them.

How can a player figure out exact distance if the yardages are to the middle of the green?

[schultzmj]

I think you need to have them.  It has become fairly accepted and most golfers today have no ability to estimate distances by sight because hey never had the need to develop that ability.

I personally like the markers with front, middle and back distances on it....especially if it is a new course that I am unfamiliar with.  

[THuckaby2]

Hmmmm... all very good stuff here... but if you're going to have markings at all (and you really have to, the way golf is today the vast majority of players will freak if you don't, or at the very least you'l have a lot of 'splainin' to do) what's wrong with Kirby markers, which seem to be everywhere here in California?  They are unobtrusive little plates placed at 25 yard intervals from 100 out to 225 or sometimes 250 from each green... They're very easy to find for the player and I can't see them being any great expense as compared to etched sprinkler heads....

As a player I do prefer these to having to search for spinklerheads, where often some are marked and others not....

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Robert,

Unless you have a daily pin sheet (which probably 99% of courses don't) with yardages to pin from front, how do you know the distance to the pin and total depth of the green, which can vary from, say, 15 yards deep to 60+ yards deep?  If a marker is to the center, you have a much easier solution to distance to pin, especially with front/middle/back pins.

[JakaB]

Ah shucks Huck...it must be a bitch being in the middle of the fairway all of the time.   Why not just pave a stripe down the middle of the faiway with a ruler superimposed on it.  The you could just bounch your straight ass ball all the way to the green.   I was in a good mood about 5 minutes this morning and agreed that yardage markers are a requirement but I hate the idea of plates every 25 yards....I understand the universal colors of red = 100 white = 150 and blue = 200 but what do you want...a rainbow down the middle of the fairway...I guess that might be nice...I need something to cheer me back up.

[THuckaby2]

Dave, Dave, Dave.  Sure, we can wistfully wish for how things were, but this genie isn't going back in the bottle.  99.9% of today's golfers play using distance information, and have become accustomed to having such available, be it on sprinkler heads, kirby markers, 150 poles, whatever.  You are correct in principle here - judging distance SHOULD be part of the game and I am old enough to remember playing that way... But it hasn't been for a LONG LONG time and "progress" isn't marching backwards.

So given the reality of golf today, give me kirby markers over yardages on sprinkler heads that have to be searched for... these make the best of the situation.

Of course one simple 150 bush/pole/stake wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I see that receiving rage from too many players today also.  Maybe we use Kirby markers, start taking them away little by little....

TH

[THuckaby2]

JakaB - there are kirby markers at Pasatiempo.  Guess you didn't notice them... and that's the point.  They are very unobtrusive.

As I say in my post to Dave above, these make the best out of a bad situation.  No, I need no guideposts... hell personally I'd LOVE for the genie to go back in the bottle, as I find it fun to play with no distance information... But it ain't gonna happen and people today would indeed FREAK if there was no distance info available.

So again, rather than use sprinkler heads that people search for, use these Kirbys that are easy to find.  Then start taking them away, little by little.

Is that better?

TH

ps - every 25 yards is the MAXIMUM that kirby markers do... 100-150-200 is quite common also.

[JakaB]

Huck,

If you recall my 7 wood punches at Pasatiempo...my driver play reminded me of a more famous Kirby product...it sucked.  

[THuckaby2]

Ah yes... you did have some epic Seve-like recoveries!

Still, I hope you get my point here... I am absolutely not advocating MORE guideposts for people - I just do think Kirby markers make things go a lot quicker than yardages on sprinkler heads.  They really aren't as horrible-looking as they sound, also....

TH

[THuckaby2]

Those are all great thoughts, Dave - but they're as likely to happen as you and I winning our foursomes match in the next Ryder Cup.

You are absolutely correct, and dare to dream, I guess... but all that remains a dream.

Given today's reality, the kirbys do a good job.

BTW, kirbys are usually all the same color, some low key brown or something that blends into the turf well.  They are very slightly raised, so they can be easily seen, but they don't stand out like beacons or anything... You just know they're there, typically right at the rough line, so you can see them from pretty far away and gage your distance that way quite quickly.

TH

[JakaB]

David,

How can you not include Sight Lines on the golf ball as something to be banned...You converted me and if you now draw a line on your ball spending at least an additional 30 seconds per putt...you should be ashamed and proceed to spank yourself.

btw...you also proved that when using a sprinkler head choose one on the way to your ball and pace to it....I would agree with a ban on ever walking past your ball and then pacing backwards.

[David_Elvins]

The only thing more frustrating than watching a 27 marker pacing off the distance to a yardage marker is watching him pace off the distance from the back of the tee box to the tee markers as part of his pre shot routine.

Anyway, how prevalent are the colour coded back, middle and front Flagsticks in America?  Does anyone have any opinion as to whether these are good or bad?

[Robert Kimball]

Dave and Huck, I honestly don't remember kirbys at Pasa either, so they must not be that obtrusive.  I agree with most of the posts that you should be able to figure out what club to hit with no more than a 150-yard birdhouse, and maybe a red plate for 100.  
  Most "average" golfers don't need to know if it is 187 or 193 to the front pin placement.  TV golf might have something to do with this problem because they see the top 1% of golfers in the world getting clubbed to the yard.  
  In short -- just hit it -- you might be suprised at the result of not standing over a 3-iron saying to yourself, "now if I carry this one 194, I should be able to reach the back left pin today."  

[THuckaby2]

I may get lambasted for this also... but....

I also favor color-coded flagsticks, in today's reality.  Yes, they give an "unfair" advantage and Tom Morris sure didn't have them.  But I play a LOT of golf on public courses and to me these also make things go faster, help quicken the club choice.

I am bracing myself for the midwest onslaught to come....

TH

[Lou_Duran]

And I thought that most conservatives were also libertarians.  Hell, why even put a flag stick in the hole.  Let's all play at night.

Seriously, on my course every sprinkler head within 20 yards of both sides of the fairway and from 300 yards to 50 yards from the CENTER on the green would be marked with a single, legible, easy to maintain distance plate.  My scorecard would show the depth of the green, and a F/B/M pin system would be employed (actual pin sheets for tournaments).  Those whose eyes don't work well, like mine, can use them to their advantage.  For the purists, they don't even need a card, nor should they have to seek sprinkler heads to confound their sharply honed instintcs.  Speed of play- mandated by fiat, less than 4 hours in the weekend mornings; less than 4:15 in the afternoons; much faster during uncrowded times using appropriate etiquette.  To suggest that having good information actually causes slower golf is not real logical.  Indecision, walking up for a better vantage of the green, miscalculating and hitting errant shots surely take more time than locating the nearest sprinkler head, and adding or subtracting for the pin location.  It is not rocket science, and you still have to hit the ball the required distance.

[Lester_Bernham]

Guys

What is so wrong with hiring a caddy ? , so we can get rid of all this nonense.

Lester