[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's the link:

http://tinyurl.com/y6pcyb

Bandon Trails is #2 Public, Doak has 3 in top 10 Private

PUBLIC UNDER $75
1. KING CARTER G.C.
• Irvington, Va. • 6,818 yards, par 71, $34. • Joel Weiman, designer.
• 804-435-7842. • kingcartergolfclub.com
2. BLUE HERON G.C. (HIGHLANDS & LAKES NINES)
• Medina, Ohio. • 6,932 yards, par 72, $69. • John Robinson.
• 330-722-0227 • golfblueheron.com
3. SUNDANCE AT A-GA-MING GOLF RESORT
• Kewadin, Mich. • 6,935 yards, par 72, $74. • Jerry Matthews.
• 800-678-0122. • a-ga-ming.com
4. THE SHOALS (SCHOOLMASTER)
• Muscle Shoals, Ala. • 7,971 yards, par 72, $55. • Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan. • 256-446-5111. • rtjgolf.com
5. THE ATCHAFALAYA G. CSE. AT IDLEWILD
• Patterson, La. • 7,533 yards, par 72, $65. • Rick Baril and Robert von Hagge.
• 985-395-4653. • atchafalayagolf.com
6. JUNIPER G. CSE.
• Redmond, Ore. • 7,186 yards, par 72, $55. • John Harbottle.
• 541-548-3121. • junipergolf.com
7. BERGAMONT G.C.
• Oregon, Wis. • 7,339 yards, par 72, $70. • Andy North.
• 608-835-6900. • thebergamont.com
8. THE JEWEL G.C.
• Lake City, Minn. n 7,050 yards, par 71, $60. • Hale Irwin and Stan Gentry.
• 800-738-7714. • jewelgolfclub.com
9. CALLIPPE PRESERVE G. CSE.
• Pleasanton, Calif. • 6,748 yards, par 72, $60. • Brian Costello.
• 925-426-6666. • playcallippe.com
10. MINES G. CSE.
• Grand Rapids, Mich. • 6,701 yards, par 70, $40. • Mike DeVries.
• 616-791-7544. • minesgolfcourse.com

NOTE: Green fee reflects the 2006 peak-season weekend rate
including cart if mandatory.

PUBLIC OVER $75

1. OSPREY MEADOWS
• Donnelly, Idaho. • 7,319 yards, par 72, $119. • Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Bruce Charlton, designers. • 208-325-4653. • tamarackidaho.com
>> Read more on Robert Trent Jones Jr.
2. BANDON TRAILS
• Bandon, Ore. • 6,765 yards, par 71, $240. • Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw. • 888-345-6008. • bandondunesgolf.com
3. BAY CREEK RESORT & C. (NICKLAUS)
• Cape Charles, Va. • 7,417 yards, par 72, $95. • Jack Nicklaus. • 757-331-8622. • baycreek.net
4. NORTHERN BAY G. RESORT
• Arkdale, Wis. • 7,223 yards, par 72, $95. • Dave Relford and Matt Mootz. • 608-339-9891. • northernbayresort.com
5. CLASSIC C.
• Palm Desert, Calif. • 7,305 yards, par 72, $195. • Arnold Palmer, Ed Seay and Vicki Martz. • 760-601-3600. • classicclubgolf.com
6. SUNDAY RIVER G.C.
• Newry, Me. • 7,130 yards, par 72, $95. • Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Ty Butler. • 207-824-4653. • harrisgolfonline.com
7. THE PROSPECTOR AT SUNCADIA
• Cle Elum, Wash. n 7,112 yards, par 72, $95. • Arnold Palmer, Ed Seay and Erik Larsen. • 866-715-5050. • suncadia.com
8. BAYSIDE RESORT G.C.
• Selbyville, Del. • 7,545 yards, par 72, $150. • Jack Nicklaus.
• 302-436-3400. • golfbayside.com
9. REDSTONE G.C. (TOURNAMENT CSE.)
• Humble, Tex. • 7,422 yards, par 72, $125. • Rees Jones, with David Toms. • 281-459-7820. • redstonegolfclub.com
10. THE MEADOWS AT MYSTIC LAKE
• Prior Lake, Minn. • 7,144 yards, par 72, $85. • Garrett Gill and Paul Miller. • 952-233-5533. • mysticlakegolf.com
NOTE: Green fee reflects the 2006 peak-season weekend rate, including cart if mandatory.

PRIVATE

1. THE CONCESSION G.C.
Bradenton, Fla. • 7,470 yards, par 72. • Jack Nicklaus and Tony Jacklin, designers. • Initiation fee: $125,000 (property owner); $150,000. • theconcession.com
2. FOREST CREEK G.C. (NORTH CSE.)
• Pinehurst, N.C. • 7,139 yards, par 72 • Tom Fazio. v Fee: $65,000.
3. THE C. AT CARLTON WOODS (FAZIO CSE.)
• The Woodlands, Tex. • 7,358 yards, par 72. • Tom Fazio. • Fee: $125,000. • theclubatcarltonwoods.com
4. CHAMPIONS RETREAT G.C. (BLUFF & ISLAND NINES)
• Evans, Ga. • 7,265 yards, par 72. •Jack Nicklaus/Arnold Palmer, Ed Seay and Harrison Minchew. • Fee: $30,000 (individual); $35,000 (corporate). v championsretreat.net
5. 3 CREEK RANCH G.C.
• Jackson, Wyo. •7,729 yards, par 72. • Rees Jones. • Fee: $150,000. • 3creekranchgolf.com
6. BALLYNEAL
• Holyoke, Colo. • 7,147 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: $50,000. • ballyneal.com
7. TUMBLE CREEK G. CSE. AT SUNCADIA
• Cle Elum, Wash. • 7,070 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: $60,000. • tumblecreek.com
8. DANIEL ISLAND C. (RALSTON CREEK CSE.)
• Daniel Island, S.C. • 7,446 yards, par 72. • Rees Jones. • Fee: $65,000 (property owner); $90,000. • danielisland.com
9. STONE EAGLE C.
• Palm Desert, Calif. • 6,840 yards, par 71. • Tom Doak. • Fee: From $50,000 (junior) to $175,000 (full). •stoneeagleclub.com
10. TUHAYE G. CSE.
• Tuhaye, Utah. • 7,800 yards, par 72. • Mark O'Meara and Brit Stenson. • Fee: $100,000 (property ownership required). • taliskerclub.com

[Jeff_Mingay]

Glad to see The Mines at least made the first list, at #10. Haven't see the others, but if The Mines is #10, the others must be really good.

[Sean Leary]

WTF...

Ballyneal 6th? Please.

I also played Osprey Meadows and I REALLY disliked it, and I don't feel that way about many courses.  I was there in mid July and it was not even close to being able to being ready for play, as there was almost no grass and it was soaking wet. I had tee times for a couple of days and I canceled the rest after one round.  Blind tee shots throughout the golf course, including the first hole, which on a resort golf course is insane. The 18th hole might be one of the worst holes I've ever played.

It is rather remote, so I can't see how that many raters were able to see it.

What the hell is going on..

[John Kirk]

Not to mention, Sean, that it finished ahead of Bandon Trails, which is a helluva golf course.

[Bill Satterfield]

I agree, Ballyneal at 6th is surprising.  The Carlton Woods (Fazio) course I thought was great so it doesn't surprise me it did well but 3 Creek at 5th was higher than I expected.  I also thought there would be a bigger gap between Tumble Creek and Ballyneal since I felt Bally was considerably better.

Disagree on Osprey Meadows though, I liked it quite a bit.  It has a great mix of hole lengths, strategies, tons of bunkers, and nice green contours.  I enjoyed the mix of holes playing through the trees, out in the meadows, and along the mountain base.  I also thought it put a balanced demand on driving, approaches, and short game with overemphasizing any one aspect.

I'm not sure what holes you are referring to with all the blind shots, in fact, the 1st hole isn't a blind shot (unless we define blind shot differently).  It plays downhill and the only thing that messes with your vision in seeing where the ball ends up is the mounding in the fairway.  But it is very clear off the tee where to place your tee shot (just right of the bunker on the left) since you can see the fairway and bunkers from the tee.  Either way, a blind shot here and there isn't all bad IMO.

Also disagree on the 18th hole.  People have criticized it but I like the strategy it offers.  I played it from the tips and didn't hit a great tee shot (265 up the far left side of the fairway) which left me 282 to the middle of the green.  From there I had the option of carrying it 210 yards to the landing area in front of the green or laying up 100 yards to the "island fairway" which would have left a 180 yard third shot.  (In between the island fairway and landing area in front of the green is a marsh area)  I simply hit a three wood right of the front edge of the green which left me with a chip from the rough and a two putt for par.  Laying up to the island fairway though still would have only been a 6 iron or so into the green and having to hit a longer third shot than second shot, while unconventional, is a pretty neat strategy option and certainly encourages going toward the green in two.  However, I completely agree that a second green should be put in for the ladies because that hole could be a bit ridiculous for them.

[Ryan Crago]

4. THE SHOALS (SCHOOLMASTER)
• Muscle Shoals, Ala. • 7,971 yards, par 72, $55. • Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan. • 256-446-5111. • rtjgolf.com

what? they couldn't squeeze in 29 more yards?

[Tim Copeland]

PUBLIC UNDER $75
1. KING CARTER G.C.
• Irvington, Va. • 6,818 yards, par 71, $34. • Joel Weiman, designer.
• 804-435-7842. • kingcartergolfclub.com



I worked with Joel on Riddle Farm in MD last year.  Joel is a very good designer and easy to work with.  Good to see good things happen for him.

[PThomas]

4. THE SHOALS (SCHOOLMASTER)
• Muscle Shoals, Ala. • 7,971 yards, par 72, $55. • Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan. • 256-446-5111. • rtjgolf.com

what? they couldn't squeeze in 29 more yards?

maybe they kept it under 8000 yards on purpose

[Cliff Hamm]

PUBLIC OVER $75

6. SUNDAY RIVER G.C.
• Newry, Me. • 7,130 yards, par 72, $95. • Robert Trent Jones Jr. and Ty Butler. • 207-824-4653. • harrisgolfonline.com

Anyone play Sunday River?  My understanding is that it is more playable, enjoyable and not as penal as Sugarloaf.  $95 also looks like a bargain for the northeast.

[Jim Franklin]

As a GD guy, I was surprised that Ballyneal was #6 as well. I did not see the other courses but thought Ballyneal was the best new course I have seen in awhile. I was also sorprised by Stone Eagle.

[Tim Copeland]

4. THE SHOALS (SCHOOLMASTER)
• Muscle Shoals, Ala. • 7,971 yards, par 72, $55. • Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan. • 256-446-5111. • rtjgolf.com

what? they couldn't squeeze in 29 more yards?

maybe they kept it under 8000 yards on purpose

Knowing Bobby...... that is exactly what they did

[Dan_Callahan]

Anyone play Sunday River?  My understanding is that it is more playable, enjoyable and not as penal as Sugarloaf.  $95 also looks like a bargain for the northeast.

Cliff,

Michael Moore gave a brief review a while ago. Here's the link:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=20276;start=msg362125#msg362125

[Kirk Gill]

What, if anything, should be made of the fact that none of the "big name" architects (Fazio, Doak, The Jones', C&C, Nicklaus, Palmer) show up on the list of public courses under $75 ?

Is it that they don't accept those kind of jobs, or that their fees would necessarily make those courses cost more, or that those kind of courses aren't made on land that is interesting enough to warrant their involvement, is this a one-year anomaly, or......?

Just wondering.

[Cliff Hamm]

Kirk ...I think you raise an important point.  While one does not have to do pro buono work, so to speak, I have the utmost respect for architects who accept not only the high end jobs but also a smattering of jobs that don't offer infinite budgets.  

I will always respect Pete Dye for being involved with Wintonbury Hills.  Similarly, while Geoffrey Cornish may hot have designed the most exhiliarting courses his contribution to public golf in New England is immeasurable.  

I recall Tom Doak responded to a similar thread awhile ago feeling that there are many struggling architects and is it right to take work from them? Interesting point.  I continue to feel though that those who have made it big have some obligation to give back to the game through at least some design of affordable golf for the masses.  For those who design courses with infinite budgets it might also provide a new challenge.

[Tom_Doak]

Cliff:

We've built three courses in recent years with construction budgets under $4 million ... but none of them have qualified for GOLF DIGEST's affordable category, because they charge more than the maximum green fee.

[Cliff Hamm]

Thanks Tom...my comments were were not meant to be attacking of you in any way, so I hope you didn't take them that way.  I do respect those, however, that engage in a variety of projects including building some affordable courses.  Is there an obligation to do so?  I don't know the answer to that but it's always nice to give back....

Out of curiosity, is it possible to negotiate greens fees as part of your contract?  Such as for the first 10 years greens fees may not exceed $75 plus inflation. As I type this I do recall your writing on one occassion, that you can build a course for lower fee but then the owner might turn around and use your good name to charge a high greens fee.  In that case you have obviously been taken advantage of.

[Tom_Doak]

Cliff:

I suppose it is possible to negotiate the green fee as part of your contract negotiations -- perhaps Pete Dye did this at Wintonbury Hills, after being taken advantage of on another "design for $1" years ago.  But that's the only case I know of where it has been done.  As a practical matter, you won't find too many clients who are willing to limit their revenues in exchange for a reduced design fee.  Developing a golf course is expensive and most people hope to get their money back and then some, even if it often doesn't work that way.

[Scott Szabo]

Anyone else surprised that there was no mention of Dismal River or Sebonack?

[Sean Leary]

Disagree on Osprey Meadows though, I liked it quite a bit.  It has a great mix of hole lengths, strategies, tons of bunkers, and nice green contours.  I enjoyed the mix of holes playing through the trees, out in the meadows, and along the mountain base.  I also thought it put a balanced demand on driving, approaches, and short game with overemphasizing any one aspect.

I'm not sure what holes you are referring to with all the blind shots, in fact, the 1st hole isn't a blind shot (unless we define blind shot differently).  It plays downhill and the only thing that messes with your vision in seeing where the ball ends up is the mounding in the fairway.  But it is very clear off the tee where to place your tee shot (just right of the bunker on the left) since you can see the fairway and bunkers from the tee.  Either way, a blind shot here and there isn't all bad IMO.

Also disagree on the 18th hole.  People have criticized it but I like the strategy it offers.  I played it from the tips and didn't hit a great tee shot (265 up the far left side of the fairway) which left me 282 to the middle of the green.  From there I had the option of carrying it 210 yards to the landing area in front of the green or laying up 100 yards to the "island fairway" which would have left a 180 yard third shot.  (In between the island fairway and landing area in front of the green is a marsh area)  I simply hit a three wood right of the front edge of the green which left me with a chip from the rough and a two putt for par.  Laying up to the island fairway though still would have only been a 6 iron or so into the green and having to hit a longer third shot than second shot, while unconventional, is a pretty neat strategy option and certainly encourages going toward the green in two.  However, I completely agree that a second green should be put in for the ladies because that hole could be a bit ridiculous for them.

Bill,

We can disagree. You loved my home course, so it makes you OK in my book. Maybe it was the tee box I played (second from the back) on one but we stood on the tee trying to figure out where the fairway was.  We couldn't see it, so I just hit towards where the markers were pointing me.  Couldn't see the ball land.  I like blind shots here and there, but I felt there were a bit to many for my liking. On 18, I hit the right side of the fairway and was just hosed (left is ok).

I though many holes were Ok to good, but I just didn't think the course was anything special at all, so I am just surprised it came in 1st more than anything.  Part of it may have been that it had been WAY overwatered.  The holes through the trees (particularly 1 par 5 on the back) had no grass on it.

Just another OK course, in my mind, with some things I didn't like.

[John Kirk]

Anyone else surprised that there was no mention of Dismal River or Sebonack?

Dismal River and Sebonack did not open early enough to be considered for 2006.  They will be eligible in 2007.  I expect Sebonack to do well.

[Scott Szabo]

Thanks John.  I figured there must be a reason for their absence.

[Ryan Crago]

4. THE SHOALS (SCHOOLMASTER)
• Muscle Shoals, Ala. • 7,971 yards, par 72, $55. • Roger Rulewich and Bobby Vaughan. • 256-446-5111. • rtjgolf.com

what? they couldn't squeeze in 29 more yards?

maybe they kept it under 8000 yards on purpose

Knowing Bobby...... that is exactly what they did

i suppose my comment was laced with some sarcasm... i know better than to judge anything by length alone, but it is still a bit disconcerting to see some of the cards on this list... 7800, 7900 etc...

and after some poking around, i notice that the Shoals sister course (Fighting Joe) plays to 8000+change yards... including the 716 yd par 5 12th... so maybe i shouldn't be surprised.

[Wyatt Halliday]

On a local front, I am shocked that Atchafalaya at Idlewild comes in at #5 on the affordable list. What little credibility these rankings ever had is out the window with me. There must have been some really uninspired affordable openings in 2006.

Wow! I am still shuddering!

[Jim Franklin]

Wyatt -

There are not that many affordables out there.

[Wyatt Halliday]

Jim,

I guess it must equate to closing your eyes and picking at random. It is sheer sadness that there simply aren't many courses at <$75 worth mentioning

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