Worst course in a good setting

[Brian_Sleeman]

I played all 27 at Bay Harbor once and enjoyed the experience, and it is in my top five publics in the state (though there are MANY publics I still have yet to play and I can easily see Bay Harbor being bumped from my list soon).  If you throw in the privates, it's not even close.  

Bay Harbor seems mostly about taking a relaxing cart tour through pretty surroundings and having a game of golf going on at the same time.  Simply put, the golf isn't at the forefront - it's more of an aside.  As long as you accept that, you'll be alright.  The price isn't all that cheap either.

I'll probably play there again and there are a few holes that stick out decently in my mind, but I won't be drooling over the architecture on any return trips.

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

Just try to get Sean to agree with you for once.

Tell him you think Furry Creek is likely the worst course in a good setting, just to appease him. He will try to come back with a specious argument to the effect that no one could build a good course on that site but it is still an awful course on a site with incredible potential and beauty.

Then tell him Canterwood comes in the class of bad courses in a good setting. I think that will set him off even more. I think it is true. I hate some of the holes on that course.

Finally, point out how Nicklaus had a chance to make Nicklaus North at Whistler something special but it comes up short.

Sean will finally agree with you as opposed to being constantly argumentative.

Anytime,

Take care,

Bob J

Right, I would, but I have never played Canterwood, Nicklaus North, or Furry Creek.

But, I have played Sandpines
 


And, so Sean and I can get on the same terms ... a simple question ... 2 actually ... for Sean, btw ...

Why do you like Sandpines and why do you think I should like it?

Just wondering is all.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Half Moon Bay - either course.

What don't you like about the new course?

[Wayne Freeman]

No doubt in my mind here-  Trump, Los Angeles. An absolutely awesome setting with a schizophrenic assortment of holes, too much environmentally sensitive stuff, poor routing, and a pretty stupid first hole with water in front of the green, and a large waterfall behind-  heck, the average corporate foursome will start out dropping 15 or 20 balls in the water just getting the round started.

[Jesse Jones]

Gentlemen,

The one and only answer to that question, in my eyes, is Longaberger.

Jesse

[Mark Pearce]

Slaley Hall Hunting Course, Northumberland.  And the Steel course at Woodhall Spa, which must have the widest gap between the quality of two courses on the same site I've ever encountered.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Wayne hit the nail with a sledge hammer!  He Trumped us all (sorry).  

I have always thought Tralee was a letdown.  A setting in which the Gods of Olympus would choose to vacation, but a course boring and faintly American on the front and schizophrenic and cramped on the back.  I have always thought the site had more potential.

JC

[Sean Leary]

Jordan,

Just try to get Sean to agree with you for once.

Tell him you think Furry Creek is likely the worst course in a good setting, just to appease him. He will try to come back with a specious argument to the effect that no one could build a good course on that site but it is still an awful course on a site with incredible potential and beauty.

Then tell him Canterwood comes in the class of bad courses in a good setting. I think that will set him off even more. I think it is true. I hate some of the holes on that course.

Finally, point out how Nicklaus had a chance to make Nicklaus North at Whistler something special but it comes up short.

Sean will finally agree with you as opposed to being constantly argumentative.

Anytime,

Take care,

Bob J

 

Bob is almost always right, of course.  

Bob, I would classify Nicklaus North with Sandpines as pretty good golf courses in magnificent settings. Disappointments based on potential, yes, but not bad golf courses.

Furry Creek. I know you secretly love it and play it all the time with your lawyer buddies.   It is so bad I believe it is an absolute must play to see how bad it is.  I really do.

Canterwood might be the most unfun golf course I have ever played. I agree with your statement 100%.

Jordan,

Based on your list, I would put Sandpines 6th or 7th, as I believe that it is comparable to Gold Mountain.  I like it OK because it has some more good holes, than bad, and I have had fun playing (3 or 4 times) there. I don't buy that it is a bad golf course because it has some containment mounding on a few holes and artificial water hazards. It may not be what you prefer, but you certainly didn't mind it at Aldarra or at Gold Mountain (How natural is that lake on 15 and 16 at Gold MT, one of you favorite courses. Its as unnatural as the water at Sandpines) .

There was no way after telling everyone on here that you were going to Sandpines last year that you were going to come back and say you liked it. I'm not saying it is a great course, it isn't.  I am just saying that you were irretrievably gone on the subject before you even got there.

[Brad Tufts]

Of course Trump is an amazing setting, but a crap piece of property.....You can't call it a good property if it needs about $100 million to keep it out of the ocean......I haven't played it, but I've stopped and looked it over from the road above the course.

[Sean Leary]

Brad Tufts,

Would you classify Widow's Walk in this category.  I only played it once, but my first impression wasn't good.

[JohnV]

Ah Canterwood, it brings back such memories.

A friend of mine was playing a tournament there.  He was paired with a member of the course and another guy who was raving about how wonderful the course was.  This guy asked the member how much it cost to join.  The member replied.  My friend, who definitely wasn't as enamored with the course, then asked how much it cost to get out of a membership.  He also theorized that the gates at the entrance were to keep members in, not the public out.

A pro I know played in an event there.  When they got to the last hole, he asked what hole it was.  He was told it was #18.  He said it couldn't be because they hadn't played the windmill hole yet.

As I recall, all four par 5s require either a layup or a suspension of sanity on the tee shots.  Fortunately I can't remember much else about it.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Spanish Bay yet.  I've never played it, but I've heard and read enough other comments about it to wonder if it deserves consideration.  From what I've seen of Trump National as I mistakenly switched to the Golf Channel during their Big Break shows I can see why others think it is deserving.

Sandpines is an OK course on a great site, not a bad course.

[Sean Leary]

Ah Canterwood, it brings back such memories.

A friend of mine was playing a tournament there.  He was paired with a member of the course and another guy who was raving about how wonderful the course was.  This guy asked the member how much it cost to join.  The member replied.  My friend, who definitely wasn't as enamored with the course, then asked how much it cost to get out of a membership.  He also theorized that the gates at the entrance were to keep members in, not the public out.

A pro I know played in an event there.  When they got to the last hole, he asked what hole it was.  He was told it was #18.  He said it couldn't be because they hadn't played the windmill hole yet.

As I recall, all four par 5s require either a layup or a suspension of sanity on the tee shots.  Fortunately I can't remember much else about it.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Spanish Bay yet.  I've never played it, but I've heard and read enough other comments about it to wonder if it deserves consideration.  From what I've seen of Trump National as I mistakenly switched to the Golf Channel during their Big Break shows I can see why others think it is deserving.

Sandpines is an OK course on a great site, not a bad course.

JVB,

I played in the PNGA Midam at Canterwood a few years ago and most of the golf course was set up from the white tees to try to keep play moving.  Urban legend has it that when Peter Jacobsen played in the grand opening exhibition, that he moved up a set of tees at the turn because it was too ridiculous from the blacks.

[JohnV]

Sean, if that was 1996, that was the tournament I was talking about.  I also played in it.  The third of our group of merry travelers loved the course, but he did finish 8th.

[Sean Leary]

JVB,

It was around 2001-2002, but it was the same thing that year too. Just not any fun...

[Jordan Wall]

Sean,

At Sandpines, I liked a few holes.

#2 confused me, #4 was a bit strange, and #7 had magnificent views -- and it stops and great views.
#8 and 9 are good, more so 8 then 9.  14 was nice, and so was 16.  18 was ok, and other than that it was mediocre at best.

[Tom Huckaby]

Half Moon Bay - either course.

Scott - now I'm no fan of HMB-Old - I hate the way they sell that as a seaside course, and it's really anything but given it threads its way through canyons of overpriced homes throughout... but is that really a good setting?  The last two holes are... the rest is not.  So I'd say it's disqualified based on that.

HMB-Links (new course)... that's a fine setting... and I really like the golf course.  Do you truly find it to be that bad?  if so, why?

TH

[Paul Payne]

Jordan,

I have never played Sand Pines but your thread has peaked my interest. I looked at their web site and checked out the holes you mentioned.

I agree #4 seems a little strange in having the bunkers on the right perform double duty protecting the water from an errant shot.

I am curious why you find #2 confusing? It seems to me a decent straightforward short par 4 with a dogleg left. I am not sure there is any temptation to challenge the turn but I can't see the confusion. Enlighten me please.

[Jon Spaulding]

I played HMB Ocean last week and it was very enjoyable; 60 degrees in December ain't the norm. The course accomplishes what it set out to do; make Ritz clientele feel good about themselves and their golf games, while taking in the scenery!

Seems to me that a resort course like this should be graded with that "goal" in mind, not against more stringent criteria.

While in a great place in the world, to a neophyte like me this is a marginal piece of farmland with one small hill and one creek that they can't (or didn't) bring into play, so I thought Hills did a decent job here (for him)....

[Geoffrey Childs]

I can't believe that no one has yet mentioned The Cashen Course at Ballybunion.
It's built on some of the most dramatic dunesland in the world and some people absolutely HATE it.

I am not one of those who hate it.  I actually liked it quite a bit.

Another Irish gem on some of the most dramatic land I've ever seen and that I have heard lots of negative comments is Carne.  Ran might be one of those who would put Carne in this category.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jon - re HMB Ocean, of course you know you are damning it with faint praise with all of that....

I find it to be a darn good course by any criteria.  It's not Pebble, but then again as you point out it doesn't have the dramatic land that Pebble does.

But this gets to my larger point, again... I find the setting to be so good there, maybe it does overshadow course deficiencies... and if it does, well then more power to the place.  Setting matters.  A lot.

TH

[Jon Spaulding]

Agreed; the course should not have been offered up as the worst of anything!

[Paul Payne]

I guess I am too forgiving to judge a course too harshly in this catagory however, that being said, I truly found Osprey Point to be a boring-snooze-filled-spongy green-"fair-as-ever" course. I am not sure that the property constraints would have allowed anything substantially more attractive, but the course surely could be a lot more exciting.

[Adam Clayman]

Excellent golf courses rarely need to be re-done immediately after opening. Do they?

[Jack_Marr]

I can't believe that no one has yet mentioned The Cashen Course at Ballybunion.
It's built on some of the most dramatic dunesland in the world and some people absolutely HATE it.

I am not one of those who hate it.  I actually liked it quite a bit.

Another Irish gem on some of the most dramatic land I've ever seen and that I have heard lots of negative comments is Carne.  Ran might be one of those who would put Carne in this category.

I can see how some people would think this, sure enough. I think both are love-it-or-hate-it courses. I don't know another course like Carne.

[Gary Slatter]

Torrey Pines for worst course in a great setting after having the chance to make it great course.