[Doug Ralston]

I wish I could actually get on 'Olde Stone' in Bowling Green Kentucky. I have heard so much now about the new very Private Hills course, and every bit of it WAY to the good.

Since Hills is such a periah here, I wondered if anyone here had played it? If so, comments with respect to design would be interesting. Here is the site with some interesting pix under Photo Gallery:

http://www.olde-stone.com/golf_course.htm

Comments?

Doug

[Gary Daughters]

[Dan_Callahan]

I have only played one Hills course—Newport National. I loved the course, and my only complaint is one I would also have at Olde Stone (based on the photo tour). His bunkers, with their broad, flat bottoms, aren't at all penal. Compare those photos to the one's on the other thread of Long Shadow, where it looks like going into a bunker is a real no-no.

I don't know if this is typical Hills feature or merely a coincidence, but I'm not a big fan. Everything else about Newport is outstanding.

[Jordan Wall]

I wish I could actually get on 'Olde Stone' in Bowling Green Kentucky. I have heard so much now about the new very Private Hills course, and every bit of it WAY to the good.

A good Hills course?
On GCA?

April 1st isnt for a few months Doug
 

[Tim Bert]

He's 1 for 1 in my book.  I post this every time an Art Hills thread comes up because the air gets so negative.  I really enjoy Newport National.

Here's hoping the one that he's designing 10 minutes from my house makes hom 2 for 2.

[Forrest Richardson]

I have not played that many Hills' courses. My favorite so far has been Tamarron in Durango, Colorado. It has undergone extensive remodeling (the original 18-holes) by Todd Schroeder. Todd works with Design Workshop out of Denver. I was very impressed by Todd's new 9-holes there. I beleive the course has now been named The Glacier Club. My understanding is that Hills was not all that pleased that he was not asked to come back and re-do the course, and add the third nine. I would not be pleased either...but the cookie crumbles in off ways in this business. I could write a very formadable book about how projects shift from designer to designer...and often to another designer before all being done.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Many of those bunkers look plenty deep to me, even if the sand is flat, and even in proportion to their size.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wingpointe in Utah is a lot of fun, Maryland National is good even with an awful routing, some people like Lighthouse Sound but Mark Fine and I agree that it's ghastly difficult and another 6 hour cart ride.   I also like Waverly Woods in MD a good deal.  

Put it this way...there is a heckuva lot going on out there a hell of a lot worse than an Art Hills golf course.

[Kyle Harris]

...and I'm living right in the middle of it.

Mike and I had a conversation last week, where I said something like this:

"You know you're in golf hell when you look through a golfers' guide and dogear the pages with the Art Hills courses."

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I didn't think Congressional-Gold was a bad course for what it was.  The membership wanted a course that offered a different experience, a different playing demand than the Blue Course.  The mission statement specified the goal for the course, which was met.  As I recall, it was to provide a members' course that offers a comparable playing experience to the better private clubs in the area.  In my opinion, during my limited time there, I felt this was achieved.  I hope this isn't construed as a backhanded or damning statement.  It isn't meant as such.

I remember the course having some dogleg holes, being very, very well conditioned, and requiring mostly all aerial shots.  I believe it was what the members wanted and it was a good result.  It was fun to play every other week.  (Each day, one of the two courses is designated as "Open")

[Tommy Williamsen]

This thread seems to pop up every once in a while.  Art Hills is not my favorite architect but he does good work.  Lakeside at The GC of Georgia, Thorobred in MI and MD National are all quality courses.
I do think, however, his best work, may be in remodeling/redesigning.  His work at Congresssional and Manor in DC are great.
One side note is that every where I go I have yet to hear anyone sayanything bad about him as a person.  

[noonan]

A good Art Hills course?

Look in the dictionary and you will find the above sentence as the definition of oxymoron.

[Bill Satterfield]

I agree with Tommy, I played The Golf Club of Georgia a few years back (Lakeside 18) and really enjoyed it.  It has some beautiful par 3s and the par 5 11th made Golf Magazine's Top 500 holes in the world.

The super deserves a pat on the back as well as the conditioning was beautiful.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Art is a good solid architect. Half Moon Bay is also a good Hills course. It is two or three holes from being a top tier course.

[Doug Ralston]

Another Hill's you would like is his re-do of Big Blue, the University of Kentucky course. Smart design, great conditions, fun, and just $40 right now. Open to the public on Tuesday and Thursday.

I do wish one of you architects had played 'Olde Stone' though. The people who have and have also played all the top private courses in the State tell me it will easily outrank Valhalla AFTER the Ryder Cup [no one daring to do it now because that event needs all the publicity]. I would love a Pro's comment on the architecture though.

Also word of mouth, the 1st hole is perhaps the most difficult [albeit beautiful] starting hole anywhere. I note this as I saw a thread on that idea.

Doug

[Coral_Ridge]

Champion Trace Golf Club near Lexington, KY is regarded by some as the best golf course in the state.

Champion Trace Golf Club

[Mike Hendren]

Jordan, Jerry & Kyle:

Please list your top three criticisms of Arthur Hills' work.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[Craig Van Egmond]

I think Art Hills has built lots of 'good' courses. I have played 5 or 6 and I would consider them all to be good, solid courses, including Half Moon Bay and Bay Harbour.  The problem seems to be the lack of 'great' courses and after 200 courses you'd think there would be a few. In baseball in he would hit lots of singles but no home runs.  A very solid career though.  

[Paul Payne]

I have only played a few of his courses, two of which I remember in detail.

One is Chaska in Minnesota. It is really a pretty good course with one annoying hole and one hole that I think is rediculous.

The other is Cedar Creek in Aiken SC which I think is a depressing course with a few good holes which to remember it by.

[Adam Clayman]

This thread should help illustrate how generalized pots shots like the one's made, without having golfed all/most of someones work, have zero value. Without specific justification for the dis-like, it's mean spirted and unnecessary.

The Dunes Golfer's club is a sand based site that has plenty of character. It's even getting restored to Art's original design after the previous owners/members(?) took out some aspects to certain holes ruining their intent. I had two slight criticisms. The Bathroom behind the GREAT one shotter is moronic placement. And, Some over constructed small symetrical mounds that seemed oddly placed on one or two holes. They were similar to the out of place mounding added to the first (?) C&C 1983 Houston area design.

[jeffwarne]

My understanding is that Hills was not all that pleased that he was not asked to come back and re-do the course, and add the third nine. I would not be pleased either...but the cookie crumbles in off ways in this business. I could write a very formadable book about how projects shift from designer to designer...and often to another designer before all being done.

Forrest, assuming the client wanted something different than what had been delivered the first time,why would he rehire the same architect?
And if he did rehire the same architect, would he receive a refund on the design fee for the first go round?
Or gratis on the redo?
Not a jab at you or Arthur Hills (in fact his course at Palmetto Dunes was always a joy to play); I just see it (the same architect redo his course)happen quite often and I'm curious about why the work is needed and why it wasn't done the first go round.
I'm not talking about a tweak, but a redo.

[Doug Ralston]

Jon Davis;

The other Kentucky private I hear mentioned as Top Kentucky course is Persimmon Ridge. It is VERY tough, I understand, but a challenge and strategically multifaceted.

I am pleased with courses from many architects. If I seem defensive of Art Hills, it is because I DO like a lot of different concepts. Art gets, IMHO, a rather harsh rap here.

Doug

[David Stamm]

I've only played one Hills course, Cross Creek in Temecula, California. I enjoyed the course overall, although there were a couple of goofy holes. I didn't think it was "bad". I do think he could've done better w/ such a great oppurtunity to work on a rare piece of property such as this in Cal. Those types of properties don't come around here very often and I wonder how great it would've been w/ Doak or Coore/Crenshaw at the helm. For that matter, any one of the archs. at this site. I think Hills did miss a chance to silence his critics w/ such a nice piece of property, but I don't think it was awful.

[Glenn Spencer]

I've only played one Hills course, Cross Creek in Temecula, California. I enjoyed the course overall, although there were a couple of goofy holes. I didn't think it was "bad". I do think he could've done better w/ such a great oppurtunity to work on a rare piece of property such as this in Cal. Those types of properties don't come around here very often and I wonder how great it would've been w/ Doak or Coore/Crenshaw at the helm. For that matter, any one of the archs. at this site. I think Hills did miss a chance to silence his critics w/ such a nice piece of property, but I don't think it was awful.

Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me. These Hills threads are just becoming too hard for me to lay off. I can't take it anymore.

[John Foley]

Newport National. Very very good course w/ tons of strategy, some great greens and a very solid routing. I wish more people from here would see it. Those NE'ers whove seen it have agreed.

The other is HMB Ocean.

What is the best site he's ever had? IS it HMB or perhaps Bay Harbour? Any other very good sites he's had?

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