Is TOC the world's only palindromic layout?

[CHrisB]

The Old Course's out-and-in layout and extensive use of double greens creates a routing where every hole parallels another of equal par (the par-5 5th and 14th, the par-3 8th and 11th, and the remaining par-4s).  The result of this symmetry is a "palindromic" layout (a palindrome is something that reads the same forwards and backwards):

Par 444 454 434 434 454 444

As a mathematical type, I got to wondering how rare this routing characteristic is, and after scanning my entire edition of the World Atlas of Golf, The Old Course was the only palindromic layout I could find.  But of course there are thousands of courses out there, so...

I'm asking all of you...  Do you know of any other layouts where the card reads the same forwards and backwards, and if so, (1) did the routing dictate this as at St. Andrews, (2) was it a random or unintended consequence of the routing, or (3) did the architect design it that way just for the novelty of it or as a gimmick?

Or is The Old Course the world's only palindromic layout?

[TEPaul]

I think it happened that way simply because of the basic way that the golf course evolved and progressed. At first the golfers just played out (for nine apparently) and then walked back in without playing. Eventually they figured if they were out there why not play back in the same way, so the course was widened and expanded and the greens doubled probably around the time of Alan Robertson (the first architect). And that's also the same time that TOC gave golf 18 holes as it's standard (altough I think at another time TOC may have had even a few more). The mathematic palindrome is one thing but I think there's another mathematic oddity about the course that's almost total but not quite.

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

Not quite the same, but I'll mention that both of Augusta's nines are palindromic.

Front:  454 343 454
Back:  443 545 344

I'm sure there are PLENTY of palindromes in golf course routings.  TOC is just one of many coincidences.

[CHrisB]

I don't know, Jeff.  In order to be a palindrome, par has to be an even number (throw out all the par 71s, 69s, 73's), there has to be an even number of par 3's and par 5's on each side (throw out all "unbalanced" routings), and they have to be placed in the right positions in the routing.

I don't want to do the math, but I'll bet the odds that an 18-hole routing will be a palindrome by chance would be (many thousands):1.

I'll bet there are only a handful in the world, and probably due to a similar out-in routing or done purposefully as a novelty.

Still looking...
(insert self-deprecating math nerd comment here)

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

I haven't done the math and don't intend to (George Pazin, get that slide rule out of mothballs!).  But, it seems to me given the formulaic nature of most routings (4-4-10) the odds are considerably better than one in a thousand.  Reminds me of the true story of the British bookie who laid odds that no pro would have a hole-in-one at a particular tournament at 500-1, having read that the odds for any particular pro having a hole in one was somethign like 4000-1.  He forgot, of course, that there are (usually) 4 par-3s on any course, that there are 150 players playing and they play for 4 days.  The "real" odds are something like 2.5-1.  The bookie lost his shirt.......

[CHrisB]

Rich,

I hear you and I don't really care what the statistical probability is because I'm not placing any wagers on this one!  But I'm interested to know what other courses share this characteristic, and why they do, because it seems to occur very rarely.

If it isn't so rare, then I'm sure I'll get a ton of examples from you and others!

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

ChrisB,

TOC is officially not unique.  The search is over (and it wasn't a long search...).  One of the courses near Montreal (Cowansville Golf Club) is also a palindrome:

434 534 454   454 435 434

Don't believe me?

http://www.golfcowansville.com/carte.htm

I'm sure there are many more.

[CHrisB]

Hey, we have a winner!  

Jeremy,

Sounds like a neat progression of holes--no more than 2 par 4's in a row.  Do you know for Cowansville GC if there is anything about the routing that dictates its "palindromicity"?  Does it appear random or intentional?

And Jeremy, don't just say "There, I told you TOC isn't the only one; the search is over; I'm sure there are many more; good-bye".  This is supposed to be fun and I'm actually interested in finding out about these courses and if there's anything special or unique about them.  I didn't tell you to stop after a few holes of your Reverse Old Course; I stayed with you because I thought it was a fun theoretical exercise.  Stay with me here.  Or don't; it's up to you.

I'm still searching to see if I've played any others...

[CHrisB]

Hey, check this out--Lorne Rubenstein wrote an article about this very topic and theorized with Tom Fazio about it!

http://services.golfweb.com/library/lorne/lorne961016.html  

He knew of only two palindromes: TOC and Weston G&CC, a Willie Park design in Toronto.  He also mentions the two palindrome nines at ANGC.  Out of 188 courses in the World Atlas of Golf, only TOC was a palindrome and only 5 had palindromes for a single nine holes.

Interesting article!  It's fairly long, but here's a portion:
"Only the Old Course had a complete palindrome right through the card. Evidently, this is extremely rare. I did find one other 18-hole palindrome, and in my own backyard. The Weston Golf and Country Club in Toronto is an old and classy Willie Park design; Arnold Palmer won the 1955 Canadian Open there, his first win as a professional. And the scorecard at Weston reads the same back to front. Perhaps you can find a complete palindrome in your own area.

When I first discovered golfing palindromes, I called noted architect Tom Fazio. I wondered if there was something hidden in palindromic courses. After all, Augusta National and the Old Course are two of the most celebrated courses in the game. And golf connoisseurs in my neck of the woods like to get out to Weston whenever they can.

Could it be that palindromic courses have an integrity, an internal consistency, that other tracks lack?

"My first reaction is that it's just a chance happening," Fazio told me. "If anybody asked me to design a course with that numerical sequence, I don't think I could do it. Other considerations would be more important."

Fazio and I had a pleasant, rambling chat. It was easy to see that his interest had been piqued and that he would be giving more thought to the matter of golfing palindromes. Soon he warmed to the subject.

"I wouldn't mind checking it out to see if there's some phenomenon related to the sequence that works on a mystical plane," Fazio said, now thoroughly warmed to the unusual sequences on but a few courses. "And I'll tell you, you could do it on flat terrain, where you in effect create your own topography by moving earth. It could have been done at Shadow Creek (the lavish course in Las Vegas that Fazio designed for owner Steve Wynn), where we created something from nothing." "


BTW,
I have checked all of the courses I have played and other scorecards I have collected (over 400 courses), and I've only found 1--TOC.

So the count so far is 3:  TOC, Cowansville GC in Montreal, and Weston G&CC in Toronto.

Any in the U.S.?

[Jeremy Glenn,]

ChrisB,

So I can't get away with drive-by posts anymore?  

Alright. Cowansville's routing would give me all indication that the palindrome is pretty much random (as opposed to TOC's), as the holes just meandre throughout the property.

So far, the biggest impediment to palindromes, I've found, is the tendency to have a par 3 towards the end of the round (especially 16 or 17), yet to avoid par 3s at the start of the round.

Cowansville's second hole is a long par 3 (200+ yards), which is a recipee for jamming up play on the second tee.  So it is certainly an untypical routing from that point of view.

But really, for a course to have a palindrome, in must have a fairly standard layout.  Any non-standard sequence of par would dramatically reduce palindromic chances, as the odds of repeating such a sequence twice (albeit backwards on the back nine) is a long shot.  

If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that modern courses are more likely to have palindromes in them, simply because of modern tendencies to shy away from non-standard par sequences.

[Dan Kelly]

Let's all hope Michael Murphy doesn't chance upon this thread.

Otherwise ...

"Golf in the Kingdom, Part III" -- in which Tom Fazio and Shivas Irons play Shadow Creek at 4 in the morning (after a long day of craps at the Mirage), while talking about the mystical significance of the palindromic layout of The Old Course.

Heavy, man.