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Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
San Antonio, TX suggestions
« on: November 22, 2006, 09:39:23 AM »
I'm headed to San Antonio early next year and am looking for suggestions.....

In theory, Pecan Valley and Oak Hills seem to be logical choices, but I see that each of them has undergone "revisions" by Cupp(PV) and Morrish (OH). Has anyone has been to either one of these, post revision?
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 09:53:19 AM »
Jon,

FWIW Oak Hills hosts a Champions Tour event and at one time hosted the PGA Tour Championship in its infancy.

Unusual routing with both nines returning to the clubhouse and finishing with parallel par threes.  Oddly, the 8th and 17th are also similar - short dogleg left par fours.  

The first (par 4) and tenth (par 5) are tight and heavily treed but the course opens up significantly after that.  

The first green is a thing of beauty and I'm guessing is vintage Tillinghast.  It's slightly downhill from there however, though subsequent work appears to be generally sensitive.   I believe Moorish added three new holes including a par five on the back that plays tight along residences and includes a large oak in the middle of the fairway.  

The course is slightly hilly but a good walk.  Fairways were very firm and fast when I played there several years ago.  

I believe the changes by Moorish were made in the early 80's.  Overall the course retains a classic look and I doubt you'd be disappointed.

Mike



« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 10:03:45 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 10:02:07 AM »
Thanks; would you recommend this over anything else in the vicinity?

I've only played one Tillinghast before (SF Club), so I just don't wanted to be disappointed by a Morrish course.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 10:08:21 AM »
Jon,

It's the only course I've played in the area.  Very different and not in the same league as SFGC.  But, I'm guessing there's enough Tillie there that it would provide good insight into how he approached a very different site and environment.  Oak Hills has a much lower profile and lacks the sexiness of SFGC.

Besides, in my limited experience, Moorish is no chump.

Mike
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 10:08:55 AM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 10:16:28 AM »
Agreed; SF is as good as I've seen when you're talking course only.

Morrish courses I've played have been really good.....but the thought of going to TX on business and getting on any AWT course is pretty exciting. :o
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Mark Bourgeois

Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 10:18:35 AM »
La Cantera is a lot of fun -- the "Resort Course." It's Weiskopf and Morrish.

Mark

Phil_the_Author

Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 10:22:49 AM »
Jon,

For a sense of history and to enjoy another Tilly (despite it being remodeled in 1968), go public and play Brackenridge Park.

The Texas Open Golf Tournament originated on this course in 1922 and was played here until 1959. It also served as a regular stop on the PGA tour for many years.

18 holes, 6490 yards. Slope: 122 with 36-36-72 layout.


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 10:23:44 AM »
Jon,

While not classic courses, Keith Fosters Quarry gets consistent high marks.  Also, if SE of town, try Art Shaupeters (former Foster associate) The Republic.  Ken Dye has a course in Universal City (NE of town) called Cibolo Creek (I think, gapping out right now) which is good.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Chris Kurzner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 11:25:46 AM »
I don't think you can go wrong at Oak Hills.  It is a very interesting course and I highly recommend it.  May be one of the best courses in TX.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2006, 11:28:29 AM »
Keith Foster designed another pretty good course about a half hour north, The Bandit in New Braunfels.   That is a lovely little town on the Guadalupe River where you can also rent inner tubes and slowly wind your way down the river.  There is a good restaurant, the Grist Mill, and one of Texas' oldest and finest music venues, the Gruene Hall.  New Braunfels is worth a visit.

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2006, 11:34:28 AM »
Jon,

I'm not sure of your taste, but Canyon Springs is tons of fun. It is quite memorable as well.

Short on pedigree, long on variety.

Chris Kurzner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2006, 11:37:48 AM »
Bill,

I'm thinking tubing is out in January.... :o

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2006, 11:42:41 AM »
This was my review in 2003 after two trips to San Antonio for a friend that was considering travelling there.  The link to the thread is here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16303;start=msg282912#msg282912

For me the two pleasant surprises were Pecan Valley which I liked more than I expected but I have heard has not been kept in good shape since that time and the Bandit, which I really enjoyed.  The negative surprise was the Quarry, which I particularly thought was a let down given that I really enjoy the Harvester by Keith Foster in Iowa.

High Priced:

The Quarry ($125) - Great condition, front nine is mediocre, the back nine has some cool holes.  I thought it was overpriced for the course.  A friend loves the course and says we erred by not playing the back tees (6700 - back tees, 6100 - white tees)

Las Cantera ($140) - They have two courses - we played the Palmer couse which I enjoyed.  It is hilly and difficult.  The greens were extremely sloped, hard and fast.  The Palmer course is the better of the two.  

Pecan Valley ($115 first round, $15 - second round) - My favorite course out there.  You can get a lower price by waiting to make a tee time.  It is a difficult, Midwestern style course with small raised greens.  It hosted the PGA in the 60's and the US Publinx a couple of years ago.  There are placques all over the course indicating where historical events occurred such as Arnold Palmer getting it out of the trees to win the Texas Open one year.

Hyatt Hill Country Resort course.  (APPROX. $120) It was in pretty good shape with nice greens.  I wouldn't spend a ton to play the course but would play it at a twilight rate.  It was a nice place to stay but probably 45 minutes from downtown.


Lower Priced:

      If you are able to travel outside of town, you can save significant money and play some very good courses.  We played two, and I would recommend them both:

The Golf Club of Texas - ($50 first round, lower for 2nd round). Relatively basic course about 45 minutes out of town.  Fast, bent greens and in decent shape.  The back nine goes through some scrub brush and contains more interesting holes.

The Bandit ($40) - Great course North of the city and definitely the best bargain of the courses we played.  It will be a part of a housing development but there aren't many homes on the course yet.  It would be my first choice taking money into account.

Historical Value

Brackenridge Park ($20)

      We didn't play this but I wish we would have.  It was designed by AW Tillinghast and Ben Hogan played his first professional tournament here.  By all accounts it is pretty ragged now, but, given the price and the history, I would have liked to have seen it.

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 12:13:00 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions; I've got time for 2 rounds, so it looks like Oak Hills for sure, and either Pecan or Brackenridge Park. I'll post pics when I return.

Sorry to hear about the Quarry being lousy. I played the Harvester this summer and it was "nails". Also played Foster's Darkhorse a month ago and was impressed with that as well (the topography was impressive). The conditioning was a little weak, but it's been a very hot & dry 12 months out here.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2006, 12:17:45 PM »
Historical Note:  Mike Souchak shot 27 on the back-nine at Brackenridge Park in the first round of the 1955 Texas Open.  27 for nine holes has been equaled on the tour but never bettered.

Chronicled by the great writing of Herbert Warren Wind in "Nine Holes In Twenty-Seven Strokes."

Dining Note:  Rudy's Country Store.  A Hillbilly worldwide top 10 barbecue joint.  

Mike
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 12:25:03 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2006, 12:50:58 PM »
Historical Note:  Mike Souchak shot 27 on the back-nine at Brackenridge Park in the first round of the 1955 Texas Open.  27 for nine holes has been equaled on the tour but never bettered.

Chronicled by the great writing of Herbert Warren Wind in "Nine Holes In Twenty-Seven Strokes."

Dining Note:  Rudy's Country Store.  A Hillbilly worldwide top 10 barbecue joint.  

Mike

Bogey:  I think Pavin shot 26 for 9 in Milwaukee this year
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2006, 01:09:56 PM »
You are correct, sir!  
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2006, 02:03:26 PM »
Briggs Ranch on the far west side is an outstanding Fazio course owned in part by a family with a long history in golf and Bill Rogers as the director of golf.  It is private, probably pricey, but I can't say enough good things about the variety and quality of the golf.

Quarry, Pecan Valley, and the Arthur Hills course at Hyatt are all different and well worth playing.  I also enjoyed Canyon Springs GC very much.  All of these are accessible to the public.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2006, 02:07:16 PM »
If you have access to Privates, Brian Silva did a very good job renovating on the San Antonio Country Club.  A fun golf course routed well over an interesting piece of ground.  The club was very unpretentious.

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2006, 02:13:38 PM »
I have access to privates (thru my very average home club), so it depends on the club I'm trying to reciprocate with. It looks like Oak Hills has a reciprocal policy in place, and SACC had a closed policy, which normally is a bad sign. I'm leaning towards Pecan Valley for round #2; which is public, hosted the PGA, and is a Press Maxwell layout.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Phil_the_Author

Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2006, 02:17:21 PM »
Paul, you wrote, "Bogey:  I think Pavin shot 26 for 9 in Milwaukee this year"

That is correct, but it was done on a par of either 34 or 35 (can't remember which) and so Souchak's 27 still holds as it was done on Brackenridge's par of 36.

Jason Tetterton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2006, 02:19:36 PM »
Does anyone have any information on Hal Sutton's Boot Ranch outside of San Antonio?  Here is a lint to the website,
http://www.bootranch.com/

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2006, 03:47:27 PM »
Another excellent, beautiful course, though probably not walkable and greens that are rather tame by this site's standards.  A routing that works well with carts, a very nice mix of holes, and construction which miinimized moving dirt and resulted in a course which blends in very well with the natural, rustic surroundings.  Super expensive and exclusive, perhaps in the early model of ANGC.  There is a very low density residential real estate component and a village concept with a Western motiff around the clubhouse.  High marks for playability and fun.  Excellent condiitioning and greens where even a less than expert putter can make a couple.

Mickey Boland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2006, 12:53:33 PM »
I get to San Antonio a lot and the recommendations so far have been good.  Nobody has yet mentioned Silverhorn, which is in town and is a nice track.

Second Bill McBride's mention of the small town of Gruene, just north of New Braunfels.  Great dance hall and the Grist Mill is a good place to eat.

Jay Flemma

Re:San Antonio, TX suggestions
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2006, 01:18:03 PM »
What do people think of the La cantera courses?  I played the original years ago...boy it was pricey.  Fun, but pricey.

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