"Patrick:
It seems like very few on here today give a damn what you call it. Do you really think any of those men back then who used the term "Alps" would've given a good God-damn what you'd call it? So the point is, it really doesn't matter much what you call it---all that matters is what they meant by it.
Tom,
Don't you know that Patrick has taken it upon himself to unilaterally re-classify all of the template holes that Mr. Macdonald brought back to us from the old country? He not only is the new sole arbiter if a hole is a redan, an Alps, a Biarritz, etc., but he also channels all of the writers of the past and knows specifically what they meant to say, or should have said, something like that, even if it flies in the face of 100 years of conventionally accepted golf understanding among all of those who've studied the game.
If by chance what they said doesn't fit into his narrow, self-defined version of what those holes should be, they are cast out, yay, verily defiled into the pit of fire, and called everything from pea-brains to infidels.
After all, this discussion of historical interest doesn't concern itself with what those writers and early architects might have been trying to convey to us, but all of that is just so much wasted intellectual effort because if we'd only just gone to Patrick in the first place, we'd have our answer on everything!
Now Patrick is saying the 15th at Bethpage would be an Alps hole by my definition when Mr. Young just mentioned that there is simply no crossing bunker in front of that green!
It doesn't seem to matter how many times I prove him wrong. He just comes back again and again and has more reiterations of the same tired points than I have shanks, skulls, and scuffs with my sand wedge.