The Experience at Koele on Lanai

[Geoffrey Childs]

I was asked a question about golf in Hawaii that I could not answer because alas I have not yet had the pleasure of visiting that small part of heaven.

This person is a lurker here and would like opinions specifically regarding the Experience at Koele, on Lanai. I know the Plantation course is a favorite here and Ran in particular is partial to that course but he would appreciate reading about some design specifics for the Experience at Koele and some comparisons with the Plantation course. I think he has a trip to plan.

Thanks for your input.

[Bob_Huntley]

Geoffrey,

I stayed at The Lodge about four or five years ago and played The Experience and Manele Bay, quite frankly I preferred the latter.

The Experiece is in a delightful setting,  but apart from the massive drop down shot to the 17th fairway, I have not much recollection of anything else. It is much cooler up the hill and on some holes the grass seemed a trifle thin. I am sure that this has been corrected.

Manele Bay is wide open but has some demanding shots. However, your friend should check to see if the condominium complex that they are building is finished. Until recently it ruined a round there.

As an aside, my first morning at breakfast at the Lodge I ordered a banana to go with my cereal. Whoops, big mistake. As in the old song, "Yes, we have no bananas." I was nonplussed. here I was paying something like six or seven hundred a day and I couldn't get a banana ...in Hawaii.

Bob

n

[cary lichtenstein]

I just played both the Plantation and the Experience at Koele on Lanai last week.

The Plantation is an excellent course, a bit different that the Coore and Crenshaw courses I have played. This is NOT a walking course. The cart paths are used to take advantage of the land, its views and make best use of the eye candy this property has to offer, and it has plenty.

The course plays very short on the down hill holes, real the course tips in the cart, and when it says to aim at the right or left edge of the fairway, do as it says, you get almost a slingshot effect.

Well worth playing, I liked Plantation alot.

One word of warning, the latter in the day you play, the longer your round will be. We teed off a 12:20 and finished at 5:45, just before dusk. I would try to play early.

The experience at Koele is a mountain course set in the hills of Lanai. The highlight is the 17th hole which has a 250 foot drop from tee to fairway, the highest I have ever experienced.

You have to take a ferry over there, about a 45 min ride+a 30 min mini van or bus to the course. So this is an all day deal. We took the 9:15am ferry, teed off at 11 and ate dinner at the pool of the 4 seasons and took the 7:45pm ferry back.

This is a pretty course, with lots of elevation changes, lots of water features, plantings, water lillies, etc. And they were well done. We enjoyed the course, the pace of play was good, the conditions were good and the island is interesting.

Would I play the course a second time, no. Would I play the Plantation a second time, yes.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Cary

Why wouldn't you go back?

Shot values and thrilling shots
Fun on and around the greens
Unique features or lack thereof
Expense
Other

Thanks

[cary lichtenstein]

Cary

Why wouldn't you go back?

Shot values and thrilling shots
Fun on and around the greens
Unique features or lack thereof
Expense
Other

I wouldn't want to stay on Lanai, too isolated. One time was fun. To go back, it takes a whole day, and I don't want to spenda whole day there, although their cheeseburgers and fries looked awesume.

The Plantation is a better golf experience. And if I tee off at 8 am, I'm done by 12:30 or 1, I can done whatever, workout, see the sites, go whale watching, etc.

Thanks

[Sean Leary]

I much preferred Manele as well (I actually like Manele better than Plantation, horror of horrors).  I'm not a big Hawaii golf fan, to be honest.

Both hotels there are world class. Perfect honeymoon island, me thinks..

[Bob_Huntley]

Geoffrey,

We flew into Lanaii on a two engine turbo-prop. In a wind it becomes a bit hair-raising. Didn't try the ferry.

Bob

[Evan_Green]

Manele is head and shoulders the better of the two courses.

This being said, playing a round of golf at Koele is still a fun experience (the 17th hole, which used to be the 8th hole is absolutely unforgettable) and should be done once, certainly if staying on Lanai. But even staying in Maui, its a great day to boat over first thing in the morning and play both courses, then take the evening ferry back.

But if you only can choose one, make it Manele...

[Jason Blasberg]

Geoff:

I've been only to Maui and played only the Plantation Course (5 times in 6 days! ) so I'm no use on the rest of HI golf.

[Ted Kramer]

My wife and I got married on Lanai a few years ago.
We spent about 2 weeks on the island and loved every minute . . .
Neither The Challenge nor The Experience are great golf courses.
I haven't played the Plantation so I can't be of much help in that dept.

The Experience is a cool course. The setting is magnificient but I think that a lot would be lost by trying to fit in a round at Koele during a day trip. So much of the joy and pleasure of my rounds there came from the incredibly relaxed nature and slow flow of the island.

As a golf course standing on its own, I'm not so sure that the Experience is anything too amazing. But for a golf course that is part of the Lanai Island Experience, it is wonderful.

If your buddy would like to contact me with any specific questions I'd be glad to help him out.

-Ted
 

[Geoffrey Childs]

Thanks Ted.  I'll let you know.

I think that there is a lot to be said about a "total experience" and there is nothing wrong with taking it all in as a visual and sensual event along with the physical aspects of actually playing the game.  Who isn't influenced by the history and visuals at Pebble Beach?  Sometimes the architecture isn't at the forefront but when they all do come together it is magic (recall your round at Shinnecock Hills   ).

I'm going to have to get to Hawaii myself.

[Jordan Wall]

He can play Koele if he desires but make sure the Plantation is not missed!

[Buck Wolter]

Lanai is my favorite place on the planet -- Maui has too many people. My breakfast memory at the Lodge was much better than Bob's, egg's benedict but instead of english muffins the eggs were on crab cakes. They used to actually have a bargain package called the 4X4 where you could get golf, or dinner, or a jeep rental, etc everyday with the price of your room.

The Challenge at Manele is a better course than The Experience at Koele (goofy names) and it also has the best driving range in the world, you can whale watch between swings.

The only bad thing is my starwood points are now useless there and I don't think there's a Four Season's Amex.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The Experience at Koele and Manele couldn't be more different.  Koele is like being in the rockies and Manele is like being on the moon with grass.  It is almost inconceivable that they are only half and hour apart.  Manele is the better of the two but play both for the experience.  If you are not staying on Lanai, havae lunch at Koele and dinner at Manele.

[Geoffrey Childs]

We're heavy on the experience so far.

How about the golf course, its strategies, greens, hazards and what it can be compared with on the continent. Do bent grass greens (the only ones in Hawaii?) work and play OK?  

[cary lichtenstein]

Manele had just redone 11 of their greens and we were told it was in pretty rough condition. The ass't pro at the Plantation told us the Experience was much preferred by the pro's as the better course.

I heard from a couple of others that Manele was very difficult.

We just didn't want to putt on the greens in that condition so we passed on playing there.

Tell your friend to go play the Experience.

[James Bennett]

As an aside, my first morning at breakfast at the Lodge I ordered a banana to go with my cereal. Whoops, big mistake. As in the old song, "Yes, we have no bananas." I was nonplussed. here I was paying something like six or seven hundred a day and I couldn't get a banana ...in Hawaii.

Bob

my wife loves bananas.  We visited tenerife a year ago - very similar to Hawaii, except drier and a spanish influence.  Bananas everywhere, and I mean everywhere.  Could you get a banana anywhere at a Restaurant in Tenerife?  NO.  I'm not sure whether they are all exported, or whether the restaurants we visited only stocked frozen and refrigerated food.

James B

[ForkaB]

Moving a little bit more OT from Bob and James' posts.....  There was just a story here in Scotland recently about the local langoustine/prawn industry which employs nearly 10,000 people.  That being said, its modus operandi is to catch the little critters in Scottish waters, land them and then ship them to Thailand for all the heavy lifting (shelling, deveining, etc.).  They are then shipped 10,000+ miles back to Scotland where they are further processed into breaded scampi or ecrivesse etouffe or whatver.

Isn't Globalization great!

[Jonathan Cummings]

Geoffery - I played both courses several times when they first opened.  Norman's course is no more than a Doak 3 (too much distortion) and Nichlaus' a Doak 5 (quite good every beyond the breathtaking views.)

A friend and I use to fly to Lanai frequently.  We did a bunch of aeriel photography of the eastern hills, waterfalls, jungles.

Most people know that hunting wild pigs is a popular sport on all the HI islands.  Lanai is the only island you can also hunt deer - they are pigmy deer not much taller than your waist.

JC

[Ted Kramer]

We're heavy on the experience so far.

How about the golf course, its strategies, greens, hazards and what it can be compared with on the continent. Do bent grass greens (the only ones in Hawaii?) work and play OK?  

I'll do my best:

The course is tree lined.
I don't know if I found much strategy besides the basics of keep it in the fairway.
A few of the greens are pretty intense. There is a par 5 early on with a severely tiered green and if I remember correctly there is water front right. . . I remember it being a really fun approach.
The greens were OUTSTANDING when I played.
They were pretty firm and fast as hell. They weren't super firm but they certainly didn't offer stop and drop action for long iron approaches.
#17 has already been mentioned. The tee shot will live forever in the memory of anyone who tees it up there.

If your friend is contemplating a trip to Lanai, I can't encourage him enough to make the trip. The island is incredible. The hotels are truly 1st class, the food is amazing, the water is crytal clear and so inviting . . . dolphins swimming up close to the beach isn't something you see everyday.

On a slightly OT note check out the following:

www.mikecarrollgallery.com

My wife and I found his gallery during our stay and bought a few pieces. The paintings from Mike's Gallery are some of my most valued possesions, and that statement has absolutely nothing to do with money . . .

-Ted

[Ted Kramer]

These aren't the best pics in the world, but they might give you and or your buddy a decent feel for the course . . .







The last pic is the tee shot at #17.

-Ted

[Geoffrey Childs]

Thanks Ted

Some of those paintings can give you that warm tropical feeling all winter long.

[JohnV]

My ex and I stayed at the Lodge at Koele in 1996 and loved the hotel.  The Lodge is a more private place than Manele Bay which seemed to have a lot of families with little kids running around.

As for the golf courses, I preferred the Experience because it felt like a golf course as opposed to the Challenge which felt like 18 holes separated by a 30 second cart ride.  When I played the Experience, the nines were reversed so the drop shot was on 8.  Nine was a par 3 over water which would now be 18 which is little weird.

[Ted Kramer]

How does 17 play and what do you think the
height of the drop is, Ted?  I have always
wondered, it seems (as does the entire course)
 a visual delight.  

Personally, I don't expect much architecturally
from golf in Hawaii because it is more or less
all intended for the casual golfer
(not necessarily a bad thing).

#17 has to be at least 200 feet downhill.
The pond on the right is in play. And the trees on the left are further left at the landing area than you'd think from the tee.

A drive up the left side leaves a good angle into the green. If you hit the fairway, you're looking at a short iron in. The hole is all about the drive. The green/approach isn't much to get excited about. There is a tree in front of the green on the right side that  can be a problem for certain angles in, but it never came into play for me.

And the term "visual delight" describes the course and the island quite well.

-Ted

[henrye]

Spent a week there last January and really enjoyed it.  The resort is the most enjoyable part and the golf is a bonus.  The Manele course is set against the coast over some high cliffs, which makes it very visually appealing.  It also fits well into the natural landscape.  The Experience is set high up in the hills and it stuck me as a much more manufactured course.  Lots of planted flowers and small water features.  Conditioning was good, as I don't think the course gets as much play as the Manele course.  Lots of water in play, some beautiful views and all in all a very enjoyable resort course.  As golf goes in Hawaii, it's somewhat unique.