[Jay Cox]

Perhaps because blind shots are relatively rare, we tend to think of blind shots as a single, monolithic category.  But aren't there different kinds of blind shots, with very different effects on the player?

Specifically, isn't there a big difference between a "gap" blind shot - where the golfer sees a large portion of the hole, but not the landing areas for his shot - and "pure" blind shot - where the golfer sees very little?  I've generally found gap-blind shots more confusing and pure-blind shots more intimidating.  Do others agree?  Which type of shot do others prefer?  Are there other, more useful ways to categorize types of blindness?

A few examples, drawn from Ran's incomparable photo collection:

Gap-Blind Tee Shots
The 10th at Yale


The 8th at Prairie Dunes


The 11th at Bethpage Black


Pure-Blind Tee Shots
The 11th at Royal County Down


The 17th at Yale

[Forrest Richardson]

Transport yourself back a few years...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=9

[Forrest Richardson]

Mark Fine and I asked questions about blindness in Bunkers, Pits & Other Hazards...

"...Is it acceptable to not see a hazard? When a visitor to The Old Course complains about the surprise of finding a hazard hiding amongst the holes, caddies often reply that the hazards have been there for 500 years, “How can anyone consider them hidden?” “A hazard will only be blind once,” is another common response.

The notion that all hazards must be seen is an interesting debate. The position opting for complete visibility has more chance when the scenario is that of a shot played from a tee, but even so, where does one draw the line at how far or how off to one side? If there is peril along an edge, why can’t there be more peril on down? Do we have to see it? An argument for seeing hazards is that this makes them part of the show. Of course, the interesting thing about golf is that each player—except from the tee—defines where the next shots will be played to a hole. The architect, the greenkeeper and the playing partners are not a part of this decision. The golfer is alone in this trek...

In the blindness department we are faced with degrees of the condition. A hazard or feature may be fully blind, partially blind or temporarily blind. The Dell hole at Lahinch is an excellent specimen to dissect. Here we have a green set behind a dune and it is also surrounded by other dunes. It might be said that on most days the cup is “fully blind.” But this is temporary, because the cup can also be set way right where it is possible to see, sometimes, the upper part of the flagstick. Now it is said that the hole is “partially blind.” This leads to a conclusion that the former pin position behind the dune completely, is then “temporarily blind.” We made mention earlier that the position of the cup each day is marked by a white stone which gets placed to denote where the pin is set."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jay,

Great distinction.  You and Forrest are correct that the term blind should be split up somehow into different degrees for discussion sake.  

For further subdivision, you could call totally blind shots both "defined" and "undefined" with defined being blind, but with no question as to the general direction, via pole, valley between two dunes, etc.  Yale 17 is defined, RCD 11, as Borat might say, "notta so much."  

I like your "Gap" blindness term.  And as Borat again might say, "Forrest's "temporary" blind, notta so much."  I say that because the Dell hole is experienced one at a time, not over time.  Its either blind or not blind that day, not temporarily blind, even though I know what hes getting at.

[Forrest Richardson]

Unless, Jeff, the golfer has holes in his/her head. Then it is never blind. I have lots of holes in my head...in fact, that is the title of my next book.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Forrest,

Good Morning!

Like my golf instructor, who advertised that I could take a lesson from him and "play golf like I never played golf before" that miiigggghhhht be taken a couple of different ways.

The only way I can see a hole being temporarily blind is if I am playing in a fog, which might quickly lift and descend......of course, that phrase might be taken a couple of different ways, as well.

[Bill_McBride]

A little blindness to a shot can be extremely confusing even if you play the hole many times.

A good case in point is #3 at our new Pensacola Country Club, which is open the second weekend   and I will tackle again in a few minutes.

The hole is short, 340 yards from the tips, with a cross bunker all across the fairway at 260 yards set in a ridge that completely hides the bottom third of the flagstick anywhere on the green.  The green in turn falls away front right to back left after you cross a ridge about 15' into the green.  The area in front of the green slopes toward the green.  There is a deep bunker behind the green.

This is the view from the tee, with a bit of a turn to the right:



This photo was taken before the course opened, and about 180 yards from the green, so you can see the green here.  From the normal layup position 100 yards out, you can't seen more than the flag, the green is hidden.



This hole has given our members as much trouble as holes much longer that involve carries over water.  It's a pesky hole and always will be.  This give pause when one thinks, "It's only blind the first time you play it."  This is how golf architects get in your head!  

I will take some photos from the landing area soon to give a more accurate view of the second shot.

[Dan Moore]

I'm with Jay and Jeff that the 11th at RCD is one thing, partial or semi-blindness is another.  I find both interesting and very different in what they call for you to do.  I often find the fully blind more difficult because we get so target oriented that its hard to commit to a shot you can't see at all.  I don't think its as much fun though as you have no idea where you went at least initially.  Partially blind shots I think are a little easier, but can be more fun as you can must think through where you want to go on incomplete information and get a pretty good where you went while you still have the time as you walk to the ball spent in aniticipation of how it ended up as noted by Max Behr in the other thread.

Here are some of my examples that I enjoy.

The drive on a shortish par 4.  The fact that the LZ is blind but the green is not makes this one a mind tingler.  


The fairly generous blind landing zone which is off line the straight line to the green you can see from the tee.  


How about a blind par 3.  You can see the flag but not any of the green surface on this 203yd uphill par 3.  

[Jay Cox]

Dan, what is the hole in your first picture?  At first glance, I like it a lot.

Jeff, I love the added distinction between defined pure blind and undefined pure blind.  Would it be right to say that gap-blind shots (like the 10th tee shot at Yale) are more difficult than non-blind shots primarily because they create confusion, that defined pure blind shots (like the 17th tee shot at Yale) are more difficult than non-blind shots primarily because of the intimidation factor, and that undefined pure blind shots (like the 11th tee shot at RCD) are the most difficult because they both intimidate and confuse?

[TEPaul]

That 11th hole at Royal County Down is something else. First time I played it, it wasn't the total blindness I was concerned about---it was whether I was going to get the ball up high enough fast enough.  

Old Head has some neat blind holes too. The 12th (I think it is) is very cool since the first time you have zero idea of a direction and depending on your length the line can vary immensely. Unfortunately, I had a caddie Tiger Woods had a few days before and he kept telling me where Tiger hit it. On this particular blind hole, a par 5, Woods hit it so far left he just had a SW left.

[Dan Moore]

Jay,

That is the 6th at the Kingsley Club.  The green is in the very middle of the 1st picture with the LZ to the left, not to be confused with the players on the left who are on the 4th tee.  In the second picture, the tee  is to the left of the flag over the crest of the fairway.  

[Paul Payne]

I read the older thread that Forrest had posted and in it was a quote from Tom Doak where he said he tried to stay away from blind shots because "they open up liability issues and are generally unpopular".

Is this really true? Are blind shots that unpopular with golfers as a whole? Are they really a source of litigation?

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