How often is an aerial shot the only option on a Links Course?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Links courses are famed, among other qualities, of the possibility of running the ball into the green from the fairway – however there are cases where an aerial, with the ball pitching directly on to the green is DICTATED – not just as an option but dictated.
Something like the 16th at Turnberry or the Pit at North Berwick or a plateau Green with Bunkers like the Postage Stamp at Troon.

How many times does this occur in a round.
Considering TOC it would be the Nr.1 and for the sake of argument how would you classify the 7th , 8th and 11th since a bump and run as a recovery shot from the fairway to anywhere on the green is still a possibility.

How about some others including inland Links Courses like Sand Hills or the Sand Belt courses?

[Mark Chaplin]

At Deal there are 3 holess where you cannot run the ball into the green. 1st water similar to 1st at TOC, the 4th waste ground short and a greenraised green that throws off a short shot and finally the 8th due to bunkering. Each has a green large enough to allow shots to stop on the green even in the driest conditions.

So three holes each for different design reasons requiring an aerial approach, these holes force you to make different choices to the other 15 adding variety to the shotmaking skills required.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Sean,

I would say if a tee shot, approach AND a short approach, (from a lay up for instance), can still use 15 to 20 yards of fairway before the green to "bump and run", then it wouldn’t qualify as a “dictated aerial” as the option is still available.

Cheers

[ForkaB]

It's hard to think of a links hole where it is the "only" option, but for just about any links hole it is usually the best option, at least for the reasonably accomplished player (i.e. one that can impart serious backspin to a ball).

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Rich

Too true – but what about the unfortunates who can’t, and should the green be firm with the pin at the front and the also the lie be tight - then a recovery chip off the fairway could be a preferred option – thus the question, when is this option shut out.

[TEPaul]

John C-S:

It's very interesting that so many on here seem to think that the old classic style strategic course pretty much offers the ground-game bounce in option on most all holes.

Nothing could be further from the truth and both Pine Valley and Merion East are excellent examples. By my calculations eight holes on each of those courses has no bounce in option, merely an aerial demand one.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I walked round Hoylake with several different players during the BUDA CUP.  Each of the short holes demands a full carry.  On longer holes, when there were perhaps 50 yards to go to the front of the green, most players would opt for the fully-flown wedge shot, very vulnerable to the wind.  I longed for them to throw another ball down at the same spot and try a low, running 6- or 7-iron.  Ran did, but he was using hickories anyway....

When I started playing golf in the 60s, Dunlop 65s and Penfolds were beyond my pocket and most of the balls I used were small diameter and hard as rocks.  You could buy them in Woolworths.  Some had a couple of red dots on them.  Playing RCD was quite an experience as you frequently HAD to land the ball 40 yards short of a green in order for the ball to finish in the middle of the putting surface.  I had some old pre-war clubs, with brown-painted metal shafts, and almost every shot came off something other than the sweet spot, so a thinned shot was about 98% probable.  I still play that shot at least as frequently, so I'm glad of open-fronted greens.

[Brian Phillips]

Every green at Ballybunion New...

[Pat Ruddy]

All links have required carries to greens.
Try the first on the Old at St. Andrews!
Try naming a links with no required carries.  
Virtually all par-3s, for a start, are carries.
there is much romance on this issue but an equal lack of knowledge.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Brian,

I checked the Ballybunion New website and saw dozens of holes with open fronts – so from inspection the “chip and run” doesn’t appear to be “shut out”, if the shot is called for. Maybe you can elaborate on your comments as I have never been to Ireland.

Pat

A classic example of a Par 3 where the aerial to the green doesn’t work, and is certainly not dictated, is the 16th at Carnoustie, when the prevailing wind is following. I sat in the stand behind the green for an hour during the practice round when the Open was last at Carnoustie, and watched one flight after the other dropping it short of the green by about 20 yards and the ball running to the back of the green. (The hole was cut near the front). Bernhard Langer was the only player who got it close with a ball pitching 40m before the green.

A most knowledgeable and romantic shot.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

TE Paul

How about the Nation Golf Links of America? Would the original CB Macdonald version have been designed with the idea in mind that a the green would not necessarily hold a flighted ball and so the open front to a green was a necessity?

Or were watering techiques already advanced enough that a green could be garanteed to hold an aerial?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Mark,

I would agree with you that in the spring and autumn the greens will hold most wedge shots but in the summer when the greens are hard and the wind is rising there are still players that would prefer to play a half shot under the wind to the front of the green.
I can also still remember the days when hitting the sweet spot with the old clubs was a rare occurrence that triggered of feelings of joy and satisfaction.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wouldn't the 7th at North Berwick, and the par three 6th, as well, fit into this category?

I would agree with Tom Paul's assertion that the best courses require all the shots, but the best also tend to provide some type of bailout, even if just playing short, for the weaker player.

[Bob_Huntley]

John,

Tell me how you bump and run a shot to the 8th on TOC?


Bob

[Tim_Weiman]

John Cliver-Stainer:

Brian Phillips is basically correct when it comes to Ballybunion New, though there might be some debate when it comes to #7 and #9.

FYI, Mr Jones did consider bringing in the ocean in front of #17, but even without it I can't imagine how one would play a run up shot. Ditto for just about every other hole.

Even on the Old Course there are several holes where a run up shot isn't practical, including: #2, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 and 18. Actually, I might even add #4, 5 and 16.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Don’t forget the wording of the question.

Does the hole DICTATE an Aerial shot and SHUT OUT the possibility of a Bump and Run, mainly with a recovery shot in mind.

It is clear that if the greens are “holding” they will be bombed each time – if they are fast and firm then a “bump and run” would be a better alternative. However the question is really, is there no alternative on offer – in principle is the shot to the green Penal.

The question could be put another way.

If the greens were not holding due to very fast and firm conditions, and with strong wind coming into the equation, which Links courses dictate an Aerial shot and shut out a “bump and run”?

This leads to the question which Sean Arble addressed.
How many “Penal” Approaches should there be on a Links Course?

Which leads to the question?
Name the courses which offer the best oppurtunity for the “Bump and run” game to the green.

Remember we’re not necessarily talking about good players that can apply so much back spin that the ball would even go backwards after landing, but all the weaker players, especially the ones that can’t necesarily reach the green with a high aerial, for whom a “bump and run” shot to the green is the easiest.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Bob,

Although the 8th at TOC obviously calls for an Aerial from the Tee, if a misjudged shot falls short, one could argue there is still the opportunity with the recovery shot to bump the ball on to the Knoll in front of the green and let it roll in. However because of the bunkers the oppurtunities are limited.

[Ryan Farrow]

Wouldn't the 7th at North Berwick, and the par three 6th, as well, fit into this category?

I would agree with Tom Paul's assertion that the best courses require all the shots, but the best also tend to provide some type of bailout, even if just playing short, for the weaker player.

Would you even consider a bailout being a certain side of the green even if you still end up in a bunker? For example to the left of #6 at Oakmont & I mention Oakmont because the ground game is so important. There are only 3 true aerial holes there and 2 of them are par 3's.

This brings up another question. Are most of the aerial shots at links courses on par 3’s?

[John Chilver-Stainer]

Ryan,

I suppose “a bail out" behind or to the sides of the green could be considered as leaving an opportunity for a ”bump and run” recovery if the green was “unholdable” , but I was thinking generally more of the approach from the fairway “dictating” the aerial shot to the green.

It’s true that the Par 3 is often used to provide an unusual penal shot to the greens. At TOC there are only 2 Par 3’s,  both ask for an aerial from the tee but don’t necesarily "shut out" the recovery second shot from a  ball that doesn't make it to the green.
By my own admission not particularly good examples.

[Evan_Green]

#8 at Western Gailes requires an aerial apporach to the green over the burn:

[Brian_Ewen]

John
Reading your question I thought back to last years Senior Open at Royal Aberdeen .

I sat behind the 15th green , and watched with amazement at how many golfers tried to bank their tee shots off the narrow strip on the left hand side ,around the bunker and onto the green .

[Lloyd_Cole]

Downwind with a hazard guarding the front of a links green, a ground ball either side of the bunker finishing pin high may be the nearest you can get.. so that is not necessarily a bail out - simply the best option. My memory for hole numbers is awful, but I recall a round at Portmarnock when every hole seemed to be into the wind until we reached a short par 4 guardeed by a front bunker...

[Phil McDade]

Lloyd:

The 2nd at Machrihanish -- "Machrihanish" is the name of the hole -- demands an aerial shot at a pretty linksy course. It plays 395 yds from the medal tees, and has a creek that cuts through the fairway at @ 275 yards. Regardless of whether or not you choose to fly the creek (most don't), the second shot requires a shot up a steep dune face (with two bunkers in the middle of the dune, and the dune is thick with rough) to get to the wonderful green. It's the shot that essentially gets you up into the dunes -- after playing the first 1 1/2 holes from alongside the beach -- that characterize much of the course.

It's a pretty demanding shot -- most players probably drive short of the creek, leaving a shot of about 150-175 yards that's probably two clubs longer than that because of the uphill, aerial nature of the shot. But it's also to one of the great green complexes at Machrihanish, with all kinds of movement in and around the green and some nasty pot bunkers invisible from the fairway.

[Tom_Doak]

John:

I think it's an excellent question, I just haven't had time to sit down and think through a bunch of different links courses to devise an answer.  In general, on the great links there are usually 2-4 holes where an aerial approach is the only practical option, and the rest give you either approach.

From my own links:

Pacific Dunes requires an aerial approach only at the 11th and 14th, although if you hit your drive to the wrong side, you may need one at the 1st, 2nd, 6th, 12th, etc.

Barnbougle requires an aerial approach at the 7th, 8th, 13th (though it can be landed well short of the green) and 16th.

Ballyneal requires an aerial approach at the 3rd and 11th and 14th (sort of).

[Pat Ruddy]

Leading Irish links provide the following non-chip-and-run from far out or semi far out on the fairway....
Portmarnock  7, 10, 12, 14, 15.
Waterville   4, 11, 12, 17
Lahinch 5, 8, 10, 11, 16
Royal Co. Down  4, 7, 9, 14, 16
Royal Portrush 3, 6, 11, 13, 14, 16
European 1, 2, 6, 14
Baltray  3, 5, 7, 13m 14, 15, 17
Ballyliffin Glashedy 7, 14
County Sligo 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 13, 16
Royal Dublin 4, 6, 9, 10, 16, 18

It is as if 4-5-6 aerial routes is about the norm.
All but a few of these invite choice of aerial or bump and run for close-in work.
Much the same pertains on the British open links in Scotland and England.