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ed_getka

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Re:The Two Putt Par.
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2006, 01:35:05 AM »
Phil,
  I agree that the percentage play for a particular pin is missing the green should be the exception rather than the rule. I rarely hit what I am aiming at anyway, but at least I have an objective before I start the backswing.
   One of the cool things about great courses' greens is knowing them well enough to know where the bad places to be are on the approach shot, and how much pressure that puts on your psyche when trying to hit the approach shot. It is not enough to just hit the green and you know it. So it is not just the fact that you end up with a 3-putt, because part of that is because you didn't hit your approach to the right spot. Now if a course just has goofy greens and controlling your approach shot won't make a difference then that would be poor design IMO.
   Random thoughts at the end of the day. Hope they make sense. :)
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Doug Siebert

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Re:The Two Putt Par.
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2006, 01:57:50 AM »
Crystal Downs has a bunch of holes where being on the green in two means squat if you are on the wrong part of the green.  In fact, on several holes, you are better off missing short of the green than being above the hole, and that's a great lesson about architecture for those who eventually learn it.  (Some never will.)


I think this is a highly underrated quality of older courses that have greens with a severe back to front slope.  I often hear such greens dismissed on GCA because they aren't as interesting as greens with internal contour going in many directions.  Granted, that's true, but those of us who regularly play greens with a severe back to front slope which are kept quick find distance control and thoughtful play to be more important than on about any other types of greens.

If the pin is front, the proper play is often to play to the front fringe, and figure a chip up the hill is better than trying to gauge a stroke down the hill.  Worrying about one's GIR stats will surely lead to more total strokes unless the greens are a bit sluggish!  If the pin is back, it takes either great skill or a good measure of foolishness to play the full distance of the pin, because going long over the green rarely results in a par, and not an insignificant amount of double bogies (something I relearn a few times every season!)  Play for the middle, take the 30 foot two putt if the shot is successful, and hope the next hole's pin position offers a better opportunity to seek birdie.

During the late spring when the rough is super thick and gets 5-6" long between mowings, there is a huge premium on being in the fairway because no one (other than perhaps Tiger and Phil) can control their distance from that stuff, even with a SW.  I'll typically play for a big flyer and try to aim where being 10 yards short of the green leaves an easy shot.  Much better chance for a par there than relying on "two putt par" to have any real meaning from above the hole on some greens!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jamey Bryan

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Re:The Two Putt Par.
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2006, 09:04:57 AM »
I find it very interesting that there are three current, active threads here with the underlying theme that "fairness" requires that a two putt green is expected.

Golf is not necessarily a game of fair! (Though I'll partially contradict that later)

To illustrate, I was recently playing in our afternoon dogfight with one of our less knowledgeable members.  His tee shot on a par three crossed the adjacent teebox, finishing on the cart path next to a stand of azaleas (this wasn't as bad a shot as it sounds).  He asked me where his relief was, and I told him (unfortunately) in the middle of the azalea (this had come up recently in a regional tournament, too).  Of course, he could then take an unplayable lie, or declare the ball on the path unplayable and take relief with penalty, but that his best option (he was my partner so I advised him) was to play the ball off the path.  He did and almost made a great par but wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the day.....

My point here is that nothing in the rules of golf OR in the setup of the course on a given day entitles the golfer to an easily executable shot regardless of his ball's position (on or off the green).  Golf is a game of options and strategy, part of the beauty of golf architecture is challanging the golfer to play to his or her strengths (and terrifying him with his weaknesses).

Results of decent shots aren't always fair, but everyone's playing the same course.  Remember the original rules:

1.  Play the course as you find it.
2.  Play the ball as it lies.
3.  Play fair.

Jamey