[Mark_Rowlinson]

So what did you think of Beau Desert and Delamere Forest?

[Bill_McBride]

 

Both were great but would love to play them dry, it rained pretty much at least half the time both days.  Conditions were still good at both courses, reasonably firm.

Fowler did really good routings there, I liked Beau Desert's "slicer's dream" routing where none of the out of bounds was on the right side, the 12 perimeter holes were all clock wise around the property!  The Delamere routing was the opposite for the front nine and the same for the back.  BD has an out and back routing, DF two loops of nine.

There may not be a prettier site in golf than that from the clubhouse at Delamere, with #10 tee, #18 green, #9 green and #1 tee all lined up left to right in front of you with the forest in the center.

I would say the consensus of our group was that Beau Desert is a superior golf course because it has much more contoured and interesting greens.  Is there a record of the greens being reworked at Delamere Forest?  Certainly those greens are much flatter and less interesting in general, although some like #16 have good slopes.  Typically there the slopes were regular planes rather than multiplane contours such as those at Beau Desert.

Delamere Forest with Beau Desert's greens would be quite an outstanding golf course instead of a very good one, while Beau Desert is certainly of the highest heathland/parkland level.  It is a shame about all the trees at Beau Desert, as some of the driving lines are pinched.  Otherwise, nothing could be improved.

Having said that, the clubhouse at Delamere Forest is much more attractive and traditional, but the new dormy house at Beau Desert is a great feature.  The rate of 75 pounds a night to include B&B and a round of golf is hard to beat.

The hospitality at both courses was very nice and much appreciated.

Thanks for your recommendation of the two courses, Mark, they were an excellent complement to the links courses at Hoylake and Wallasey.  

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Do you think Delamere's greens have been flattened?  I really don't know.  I walked round part of Bull Bay, another Fowler course, on Sunday with Tom Dunne, and those greens are wicked.  They were stimping at something below 1, so they were silly to putt on, but even at that speed they were fairly impossible to hold in a normal Bull Bay breeze (2 or 3 clubs).  

[Craig Disher]

Mark,
Delamere's greens must have been flattened - or Fowler was under strict orders to design them that way. The sizes of the greens (except for the enormous 18th at Beau Desert, it must be over 10000 sq ft and apparently it was even larger at one time)are about the same but the difference in internal contours is extreme.

The ambiance and views at Delamere were superb. I can't think of a more attractive setting in golf than the clubhouse facing the four holes running towards and away from it. But some of the holes, mostly because of the flattish putting surfaces, were just good, not great. There was nothing as exciting as the 5th or 14th at Beau Desert.

From the club's website, a view of the 9th and the clubhouse.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

It's good to get your feedback.  You chaps have a world perspective.  Most of us, here, have a perspective built up on local courses, and local to us includes TOC, RCD... and everything down to Painswick (down?).  

It may be that one or other of the golf magazines rates BD or DF in its top 200 at some time, but there are another 300 courses which have equal claims to being in that 150-200 slot.  

I took an American golf journalist guest down to Conwy at the weekend.  He didn't get near to breaking 120.  It's not great architecture.  The interesting thing is that when final qualification for the Open Championship took place there only three people managed scores under par after two rounds, Jon Bevan at -5, Mikko Ilonen -2, Warren Bladon -2.  

[Mark Bourgeois]

At Delamere, there's a ridge running from left to right in your view from the clubhouse out to the course.

On the far side of the ridge is a valley, followed by a broader, higher ridge.

As you look from left to right on the first ridge, you see 10 tee, 9 green, 18 green, 1 tee.

Fowler in his routing made great use of the ridge; the collection of activity along this ridge reminds me a bit of the hill at St. George's Hill.

I really liked the holes around the perimeter; a lot of variety there.

As to Beau Desert, are these the largest greens in inland England?  Additionally, they are full of contour, with ridges, swales, and bowls -- sometimes all in the same green!

I like this approach to defending par.

The course reminded me of Yale:
1. Large, highly contoured greens, with "angular" drop offs
2. Hilly terrain, with many greens sited either up or down hills
3. Impossible to find without MoD / DoD quality GPS

Mark

[David_Tepper]

I recall reading a year or two ago that the contours of some of the greens at Beau Desert were not designed intentionally, but have rather been caused by the fact that the course is built over an abandoned coal mine. When portions of mine shafts under the course collapse from time to time and the earth above the mine shafts settles, that adds new "character" to the surface of the land above.

Does anyone know if this is truly the case or is this an "urban legend" of sorts?  

[Tommy Williamsen]

I enjoyed both when I was there last spring.  I like the green sites and the terrain better at Beau Desert but Delamere Forest has more choices off the tee and is set up to play the ground game better.  I would love to play it when it is fast and running.  I want Delamere Forest again-I played it like a dog.

[Ed Tilley]

I recall reading a year or two ago that the contours of some of the greens at Beau Desert were not designed intentionally, but have rather been caused by the fact that the course is built over an abandoned coal mine. When portions of mine shafts under the course collapse from time to time and the earth above the mine shafts settles, that adds new "character" to the surface of the land above.

Does anyone know if this is truly the case or is this an "urban legend" of sorts?  

Sean said the same thing so it must be true.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Subsidence is a problem there but I don't think that is the reason for the green contours, rather the subsidence has eroded greensites and in some cases increased the amount of tilt.

Interestingly, the club is considering purchasing an adjacent piece of property on which they have an option.  It used to be a landfill and could contain 4 or 5 regular-sized holes or a 9-hole executive course.

The members I spoke with had two ideas for the former landfill property, which I offer without comment:
1. Build a "ladies course"
2. Build a Tesco to get the ladies off the course

The purchase price on the property is one pound sterling.

Mark

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