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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2012, 05:13:16 PM »
It depends on the club. You can always tell a club where foursomes is a regular game, as there will be paths through the rough/dunes/trees from greens to the landing zone of the next fairway. This is the key reason that foursomes at a club like Rye or RCP is such a fast game.

But at clubs where they only play foursomes occasionally, people usually walk together. After all, if you're a foursome on a course full of four balls, playing faster will just mean more waiting
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2012, 05:29:02 PM »
 I'm not sure how much fun it would be over time if forced to play by the antediluvian ethos of many clubs here in the UK.

Rich - some of the top British foursomes clubs maybe "outdated" however the same style of clubs in the USA have minuscule memberships and exclusionary visitor policies. I know which model I prefer.
Cave Nil Vino

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »
Hi Mark

There are clubs in the UK and ireland with golfing pedigrees who have large memberships and who welcome visitors but do not force them to play foursomes.  That is the model which I prefer, but to each his or her own.

Slainte

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2012, 06:07:13 PM »
As a general rule does player 2 head on down the fairway while player 1 is preparing to play a shot, thereby expediting play and effectively forecaddying?  Or do the four participants typically stroll together?

Bogey

Bogey

Unfortunately, it does happen a lot where folks stay as a group of 4.  This infuriates me as it doesn't make any sense to play 4somes this way and this is the reason I won't play in the West Of England anymore.  4somes often only works properly at 2ball clubs and then the course has to be almost designed for 4somes to cut back on the endless walking without hitting a shot.  I know I would be hard pressed to join a 2ball club unless I thought the culture leaned more toward singles than 4somes.  A steady diet of 4somes would bore me as the game seems to be most about who plays the quickest and who drinks the most. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2012, 06:34:54 PM »
As a general rule does player 2 head on down the fairway while player 1 is preparing to play a shot, thereby expediting play and effectively forecaddying?  Or do the four participants typically stroll together?

Bogey

Bogey

Unfortunately, it does happen a lot where folks stay as a group of 4.  This infuriates me as it doesn't make any sense to play 4somes this way and this is the reason I won't play in the West Of England anymore.  4somes often only works properly at 2ball clubs and then the course has to be almost designed for 4somes to cut back on the endless walking without hitting a shot.  I know I would be hard pressed to join a 2ball club unless I thought the culture leaned more toward singles than 4somes.  A steady diet of 4somes would bore me as the game seems to be most about who plays the quickest and who drinks the most. 

Ciao

If anyone knows how to post an aerial of Muirfield, you'll see the diagonal paths from the back of most greens to the landing area of the next fairway.   That's where the non-driving pair heads off while the other pair goes to the tee.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2012, 09:02:56 PM »
Bill,
Are these the paths you mentioned?

As Rich noted in his last post, there are clubs on his side of the pond that do not force their members or their guests to play foursomes. It would be pretty easy for some to lose their affection for the "foursomes" mode of play if "forced" to play it by their, or any other, club.  

 


Question: do the non-players hang around at the begining of the short-cut in case their partner whiffs one or tops it a few yards, or would they rather walk back if they've already headed off toward the fairway or green?   
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:07:48 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2012, 11:33:52 PM »
Bill,
Are these the paths you mentioned?

As Rich noted in his last post, there are clubs on his side of the pond that do not force their members or their guests to play foursomes. It would be pretty easy for some to lose their affection for the "foursomes" mode of play if "forced" to play it by their, or any other, club.  

 


Question: do the non-players hang around at the begining of the short-cut in case their partner whiffs one or tops it a few yards, or would they rather walk back if they've already headed off toward the fairway or green?   

Those are the ones.  The green bottom left is #1, you can see the path to the 2nd fairway.   Same for the path to the par 3 16th from the 15th green. 

They don't hang unless they KNOW their partner is likely to hit a pop up.   On those firm fairways, even a top gets out 200 yards!

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2012, 02:18:41 AM »
Where forces visitors to play foursomes? You maybe required to split and play two ball as we did on Monday at West Sussex but I don't know a club that forces foursomes.
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2012, 05:04:58 AM »
It's been a long time since this thread started and I've played it quite a bit since then.   At one point it was about one third of all the games I played

Some thoughts

When people lament about new players knowing little  about etiquette, I wonder if foursomes is not the best way of teaching it?

Similarly a new player is likely to learn much quicker how to really play the game if they pair with a more experienced player. I'm thinking about things like when to take your medicine.   

It promotes a culture of fast play.   

It is the most sociable form of golf and I would say clubs that favour it are friendly ones where the members know a great no of others members. 

I prefer matchplay and it seems perfectly suited to this.   Can't get my head around having it for Stableford or even Medal play.   


Finally singles and foursomes matchplay seem to me to be real golf.   All other formats seem to be artificial and needlessly complicated and somehow slightly inferior (even if they are still fun and I enjoy a mixed diet).
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:39:13 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2012, 05:54:25 AM »
At our club we have specific starting times (off the 1st and 10th) for 2-ball play (singles or foursomes) and for 3- and 4- ball play, cleverly worked out so that you don't as a singles or foursomes end up being held up by a slower match. We have several foursomes knock out tournaments which are quickly fully subscribed and there are many 9-hole mixed foursomes and dinner social matches, plus a few 18-hole mixed foursomes and lunch or dinner events - again very popular. While very often husbands and wives play together regularly there are sufficient loose men and loose women to make up further teams.

For one of our men's knock out competitions partners are drawn so you may find yourself as a 19-handicapper playing with a 3-handicapper. Both find themselves playing second or third shots from positions in which they never otherwise find themselves. Thought is then required which really spices up the round. Suppose on a par 5 I hit my usual feeble drive of 180 yards. My 3-handicap partner could leave me 50 yards from the green, but with my poor chipping is that wise? Would it not be better to leave me 100 yards from the green so that I can play a full shot with a 9-iron? You long hitters don't recognise that 100 yards IS a full 9-iron shot to me, but it is, and it causes my partner to have to think on every shot. Also I get the occasional chance of hitting a full 5 wood second shot onto the green of a par 5 because of my partner's long driving, an opportunity that I haven't enjoyed as a single for 25 years or more.

And it is this thoughtful approach to the game which is necessary in mixed foursomes. In general few of the ladies are long hitters and few get the height on the ball that men tend to. But most of the ladies are very consistent, very straight and excellent at those short shots around the green. Of course, there are ladies who hit it prodigious distances for whom the normal ladies' worries, such as this or that long carry is no problem. Partnered with one of these I play the ladies' shots and my partner plays the men's shots.

I played with a lady partner in a mixed knock out only last week. She has a handicap of 11 and plays to it, and I a handicap of 19 and rarely play to it. Our opponents were a man off 3 and his 8-handicap wife. They should have wiped the floor with us, even giving us quite a few shots, but we took them to the 16th largely by intelligent play. We consulted each other on just about every shot. 'From where would you like to play your next shot?' was the frequently asked question. 'Do I try to carry the cross-bunkers? What if I fail?' It is such good fun. Although we lost we felt that we had put up a good show, and we hadn't wasted any of our handicap shots.

One of my sons and I played with a friend who is a member of Hunstanton. 3- and 4-ball play is prohibited, except by advance arrangement with the Secretary. So my friend and I played alternate shots and my son played as a single. We got round comfortably in two and a half hours, had lunch and did the same thing in the afternoon, wisely keeping to the same pairs, except that my friend swopped which tees, odds or evens, we drove at.

I can quite see that if you are paying $100 dollars for a green fee you want to get your full money's worth. But if you are a member of a club and can play whenever and however you want, you don't think about how much each shot costs but how much fun you are getting for your annual sub. Foursomes is certainly part of that. 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2012, 06:12:34 AM »
Spangles

Why do you say 4somes is the most sociable game?  I would have thought for the sociable type, 4ball better ball would be more sociable. 

For the record, my favourite type of 4somes is 4somes Bogey.  Its a brutal format which will quickly make or break a partnership. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2012, 07:23:26 AM »
Sean in my experience

Singles.    Too often your opponent channels his inner Faldo and figures if he grimaces a lot he'll play better and if he changes the pace he walks at, you'll play worse   

4BBB.     More conversation takes place between mates paired up than within the group as a whole.

Foursomes.    You chat with your immediate opponent while watching play.  Perhaps loafing on a bench by the 8th green, he fills you in a little about his partner and when you sit down to lunch afterwards it's as a group.


« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 02:37:13 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2012, 08:16:23 AM »
Chappas, yes it was with the DMS. Great group of guys, there's a fairly humorous write up on the blog courtesy of JP.
@Pure_Golf

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2012, 01:39:44 PM »
there are sufficient...  loose women to make up further teams.

Great concept, Mark!!

What golf really needs to solve it's current malaise is a sufficient supply of loose women who can play.

I've got a wife who plays, so I'm covered, but....

 
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Foursomes - have you ever played?
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2012, 03:34:46 PM »
I grew up playing foursomes.
All the county matches wre foursomes in the morning and singles in the afternoon.
I guess I have played about 40 county matches in my time, plus Englsh Schoolboy matches etc....
Always loved foursomes, demanding game though, especially when paired with somebody who plays a different game from you.ie long and crooked versus short and straight!!!!

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