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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Or can he just be the board member chosen to run the show because of business skills.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tim Copeland

  • Karma: +0/-0
The answer at most clubs is...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2006, 10:35:28 PM »
usually no........they were Captains of industry.......and now they are just captains of their rose gardens.  Most want to leave their "mark"

....and most succeed
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

Phil_the_Author

Re:Does a green chairman need to understand golf and how to play the game???
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2006, 12:19:32 AM »
Mike, you have seen enough construction documents to recognize the difference between "should" and "must."

Most people think they are the same but what a world of difference they are in reality. If all the members of a green committee had to meet a "must" requirement, how different would it be?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The answer at most clubs is...
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2006, 07:16:33 AM »
usually no........they were Captains of industry.......and now they are just captains of their rose gardens.  Most want to leave their "mark"

....and most succeed
A few that I know "think" they were captains of industry......
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ian Andrew

Re:Does a green chairman need to understand golf and how to play the game???
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2006, 03:11:25 PM »
Mike,

I don't know if that matters, but they do need to think of game's other than their own. I find a narrow view of the game the most dangerous of all to deal with.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 03:17:43 PM by Ian Andrew »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Does a green chairman need to understand golf and how to play the game???
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 03:57:22 PM »
Or can he just be the board member chosen to run the show because of business skills.



Mike,

Just because one's pockets are lined with gold,
Doesn't mean that they sing well in the shower too.

However, so as to not make a blanket statement, a lot depends upon the role and influence of the superintendent.

A successful clothing manufacturer doesn't know much about the construction business, brain surgery or patent law.

Fields of expertise don't always travel well, although, intellligence and common sense usually do.

Gib_Papazian

Depending upon the club, I believe that there needs to be a chair for the historian, as he is usually uniquely qualified to discuss the implications of any changes in the context of the original design intent.

Unless he is a power-mad cement head like the one we have - but people of that ilk are the exception. Usually the Historian cares deeply about the club, and is a valuable resource that can help prevent a golf course from wandering far afield of its spiritual purity.

We've chased Sambo around the Treehouse - and turned to butter - umpteen times debating the qualifications necessary to be an effective Green Chairman.

Until the last ten years or so, at my club the Chairman (and much of the committee) were either delusional wannabe Mackenzies or recycled Board Members who could not seem to get a life - and needed a position of authority to give validity to their lives.

Once we had a run of bright guys - two of whom regularly contribute to the website, everything quickly fell into place.

Mike, to answer your question, the Chairman must know how to read lots of books on the subject, be willing to listen carefully, find the right architect and be decisive regardless of the squawk and whining from the corner bar stool.

I've long believed that nobody ought to be appointed to any Green Committee until they have read and fully digested the following:

The Links (Hunter)
Golf Architecture in America (Thomas)
The Anatomy of a Golf Course (Doak)

I guess we need to put Hurdzen's book in there and certainly "The Evangelist," but that sounds self-serving.

Otherwise, appointing an egotistical know-nothing to turn the dials on a classic golf course is a bit like giving a monkey a loaded gun.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 01:51:03 AM by Gib Papazian »

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would love for that person to fit Gibs vision, but feel Pat hit it on the head.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
I would love for that person to fit Gibs vision, but feel Pat hit it on the head.
Agreed.
IMO one of the biggest problems we have today in private clubs is that of  board members and especially green chairman arriving with no incubating.  Most of these clubs did not just appear one day.  there was a group that got together and worked diligently to start a club.  And all of that work can be destroyed in a few years by the wrong green chairman.  Just because a person may do something such as save a few dollars on the new maintenance building or have a buddy in the fertilizer business doe no good.  It is a major problem in committee governed clubs today.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 08:29:25 AM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Patrick_Mucci

Mike Young,

The days of grooming successors are mostly in the past.

Today, when a new President is elected, they usually name their chairman without any regard to their past experience and performance.

At many clubs, it used to be that in order to ascend to the chairmanship, you had to serve on the committee for at least 3 previous years, and, you had to serve well.

A chairman needs to have a love for the entity, knowledge and time to devote to the effort.

Absent any of the above, he can't succeed, unless he has an unusual superintendent and/or committee

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Or can he just be the board member chosen to run the show because of business skills.


The Green Chairman should primarily understand his role is to ensure his committee understands its' role is to oversee the maintenance of the Golf Course and not to change it.  
Too many Green Chairman want to put "their stamp" on the course.
The Chairman should also ensure that the committee is representative of the membership and not just a narrow group that he plays with.
The role is to ensure enough challenge for the good golfer and ensure the average golfer and higher handicaps also can enjoy the course.
The USGA web site has interesting comments on the role of the Green Committee.
Best
Dave

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0


I've long believed that nobody ought to be appointed to any Green Committee until they have read and fully digested the following:

The Links (Hunter)
Golf Architecture in America (Thomas)
The Anatomy of a Golf Course (Doak)

I guess we need to put Hurdzen's book in there and certainly "The Evangelist," but that sounds self-serving.


Looks like it is Hurdzan's book this Christmas.  I've lent the Doak and Thomas books to our Course Supt, and the Doak book to our current Chair (Hunter and Bahto were borrowed copies, thanks Neil - fantastic reads).  By the way, the course supt loved the Thomas book.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

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