[Voytek Wilczak]

as when the US basketball team gets whooped by Greece?

Are Americans individualists who don't feel comfortable on a team?

I think so.

Not saying it's good or bad, but it seems that the Americans see their teammates as tomorrow's competitors, and the Europeans could not care less.

The Ryder Cup/Major Tournament records of Monty and Sergio speak for themselves and are worthy of psychological analysis.

[John_Conley]

Voytek, I'd say the Euros have been winning because it goes in from everywhere.  The United States guys are playing rather well and just can't match the long made putts.  I don't watch the PGA European Tour events; is this the norm?

The American League always wins the All-Star game.  Some things you just can't explain.

[wsmorrison]

I'll tell you a few teams of Americans that have always come through, and often for others and not themselves:

The United States Marines
The United States Navy
The United States Army
The United States Air Force
The United States Merchant Marines

Our basketball players are showboating individualists.  I'd rather play the #1 college team during the Olympic year, more of them might stay in school.  Its too bad the Celtic basketball style was replaced by street ball.

Our golfers are motivated by individual performances and records.  They probably make way too much and it takes a bit of fun out of the effort.  Tiger makes as much for appearing at a European event as the Order of Merit winner makes in a year.

But I think it is an invalid stretch to say Americans do not feel comfortable working as a team.  The team concept should not be limited to sports.

[John Kavanaugh]

My 11 yr old who doesn't golf just came in and looked at the score and said.."Doesn't Europe have more tradition in golf than we do.."  I told him yes..makes sense.

[Jason Hines]

I think it’s some individualism and that stroke play is so much different than match play.  However, my opinion is that it has more to do with the pampered pro athlete.  I am not saying it’s the same degree as pro basketball, those people are embarrassing.  This is not just limited to America; my friends in Canada blame their international teams for not winning every international hockey tournament for the same reason.  I honestly don't see the Americans winning another Ryder Cup for quite some time; however I do see them winning several more Open Championships.

[John_Conley]

I think it’s some individualism, but I think has more to do with the pampered pro athlete.  

Are you saying Europeans don't pamper their pro golfers?

[John Kavanaugh]

Maybe the US squad should have made Earl Woods an honorary captain to motivate the troops...I love Clarke..but if I'm not playing golf within 6 weeks of my lovely wifes death..somebody shoot me.  Just because of funeral arrangements I put the over under at 5 days.

[Mike_Young]

Europeans learn matchplay at a very early age and "sense" it differently than most Americans......Americans are taught to post a score as the "ultimate" and IMHO don't think of matchplay as as good of barometer of the golfer....JMO

[Jason Hines]

Good Morning John,

Not at all, it is a matter of degree.

[John Kavanaugh]

I just asked my wife how long she thought I would wait before I played golf again if she died...She said I would probably finish my round when I got the call because I sure as hell wouldn't even be at her bed side since I am never home.  When I told her about the courage of Clark she just said...OH Please..

[Doug Ralston]

No one knows why!!

Why pretend we know? It simply is happening. There is no science nearly as complex as human interaction. Remember, the nonsense about 'golf tradition' didn't work for countless Ryder Cups till relatively recently.

We simply cannot say why these golfers, who play  better than their counterparts week after week, cannot do so here. The need to explain what we cannot know by making up some irrelevant correlation constantly gets us in trouble. Lets just laugh and see about next time. This is great stuff! Ever seen so many long puts and chip-ins?

Enjoy!

Doug

[Tom_Doak]

Doug:

The Europeans aren't just holing more long putts and chip ins this year.  Two years ago, the Americans complained they just couldn't get the putts to drop.  Same thing in 2001.  There's a pattern there.

To me, the Europeans play like they are excited about the possibility of winning -- they play aggressively and freely.  The Americans play like they hate the propsect of losing.  The only time in the last ten years it hasn't been that way was on Sunday at Brookline.

[Rick Shefchik]

Putting is the difference, but putting is the window into the soul, in golf terms.

There's no technical explanation for why the Euros make more putts. From experience -- and I know I'm not the only one on this board who's had spells where putting seemed like a black art -- it's all about how you feel over the ball. If the U.S. could figure out how to feel the way the Europeans feel just before they pull the putterhead back, we'd have a competition again.

[Jim Nugent]

I'd like to see stats from the Ryder Cup.  Fairways hit, GIR, putts per GIR, scrambling, shots holed from off the green, maybe a few more.  Should be by match.  Anyone know if such stats exist?  

[Tim Pitner]

Yes, to some degree, it is because the Americans don't buy into the team concept as easily.

But, this year's European Ryder Cup team was very strong.  This time, it was the U.S. team that had players you couldn't believe were there--Wetterich, Taylor, Henry, etc.  Some of the U.S. rookies played well, but, going into the Ryder Cup, every member of the European team was more accomplished than them.  The bottom half of the European team was much stronger than the bottom half of the U.S. team.  Of course, it was a guy near the top of the U.S. team--Mickelson--who let them down the most.  He was awful--maybe the worst of all 24 players.  So, Europe was a solid favorite this week and it wasn't just the Americans' inability to play team golf.

[Jim Nugent]

Sean, I think the RC is very much about stats.  Europe heavily outplayed the U.S.  I'd like to see exactly how.  Did they hit more greens?  Make more putts?  Scramble better?  My guess is all the above.  

Mickelson's failures are no huge surprise.  He's played poorly ever since Winged Foot.  Woods' play is a big paradox to me though.  

I bet if Lehman had been captain last time, he would have gotten crucified too.  

[Rick Shefchik]

I think that's what I'm trying to say, Sean. It's about confidence -- which, I believe, is most visibly demonstrated in the putting stroke, though it surely shows up in other elements of the game, as well.

The Americans didn't look confident all weekend. It was simply most obvious on the greens -- and the hole they dug for themselves on Friday and Saturday had a lot to do with their continued struggles today.

We do tend to overanalyze this, I think. The current group of Europeans are great at this format, and the current group of Americans stink at it. Maybe, as Rich says, it's in the Euros' blood.

Earning seven-figure incomes and winning stroke-play majors is what the Americans are good at. They seem to be increasingly different pursuits.

[johnk]

I think Tim's comments were right on.

The big differences between Sutton and Lehman boil down to:
 1) No cowboy hat.
 2) Irish locale
 3) Sutton had a better team

I don't see why people are harping on "no leader".  Clearly Tiger was the leader and took that role on for the first time.  He also won 3 matches, which I think is the most wins he's ever had in a RC.

So even though he didn't pull off a miracle, and some of his early putting was crap, he still performed pretty well.  His iron play in Sat. foursome was pretty damned good.  Beating Karlsson with 4 or 5 birdies ain't bad either...

The major disappointing factors in my mind were: Mickelson and DiMarco not coming through, and the rookies not making much progress against the deeper Euro team.

[George Pazin]

I think the real question is, why don't the Euros perform better individually in the majors? I'd say the Americans don't perform that much worse in the Ryder Cup, the Euros perform much better. Lord knows, if Garcia played the same way in the majors, he'd have won a couple by now.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Paul Casey play well, I hope he returns to play the PGA Tour more - he got royally screwed by the media a few years ago.

And how can you not love Darren Clarke? Hats off.

[Jari Rasinkangas]

Fortunately on the old continent the power of money is not yet the number one issue.  In US it has been that for a long time.

In Ryder Cup you cannot get your million dollars when performing well.  It is all about honour.  But the honour does not raise your bank account.  

Another reason for good European performance is that in  Europe it is an honour to be selected in the team.  They represent Europe but they also represent their own country.  They feel as traitors if they do not perform well.

Jari

[Anthony Butler]

I'll tell you a few teams of Americans that have always come through, and often for others and not themselves:

The United States Marines
The United States Navy
The United States Army
The United States Air Force
The United States Merchant Marines

Our basketball players are showboating individualists.  I'd rather play the #1 college team during the Olympic year, more of them might stay in school.  Its too bad the Celtic basketball style was replaced by street ball.

Our golfers are motivated by individual performances and records.  They probably make way too much and it takes a bit of fun out of the effort.  Tiger makes as much for appearing at a European event as the Order of Merit winner makes in a year.

But I think it is an invalid stretch to say Americans do not feel comfortable working as a team.  The team concept should not be limited to sports.

Mmmm... nice post. Irrelevant. Incorrect. With hints of racism.

Using the US military as symbol of American teamwork as a means to victory is possibly the most inappropriate response I have seen on a Ryder Cup thread on any golf board I have visited. These people aren't 'playing' games between countries... they are the poor bastards who have paid with their lives and their bodies as a result of being dispatched on a succession of fool's errands by the US Goverment over the last 4 decades.

The US lose at basketball because the talent differential is now small enough that the US Team's failure to adapt to the international rules and their incredibly poor jump shooting (which the International game puts a premium on) costs them. You could see it coming at the 2000 Olympics where the Yugos or the Czechs (I think) went within a point or two of beating the US in the Semis. The other countries started to see that if you took options away from the US team, they couldn't adjust on the fly. That's the responsibilty of the coaching staff to recognize and correct this... BTW-the last two losing international teams were coached by STUPID WHITE MEN... it sure wouldn't have happened if Michael Jordan or Magic or Bird were still playing.

Golf is a much more individual sport than Basketball-no matter which format you are playing. The final score of the Ryder Cup is a total of individual efforts. Everyone wants to win both individually and as a team... maybe the TV channel in your world was showing something different, but in my house it showed the US playing OK and getting beaten (Fri/Sat), then the US playing well and gettting beaten (Sunday). There is no explanation needed, no excuses necessary. The US wasn't undermotivated, out-thought, out-captained, they were simply outplayed.

They didn't lose because they have private planes, less social skills or their underwear is too tight. The Euros simply got the ball into the hole in less strokes when it mattered.

THEY WERE BEATEN FAIR AND SQUARE BY THE BETTER TEAM ON THE DAY. Something I think many US team supporters would accept as the reason for victory if the results were reversed.

[Keith Durrant]

I'm with George Pazin...I think a few of you American gents have got the blinkers on - the best team is winning. It's time to re-write that slogan: "These guys are NOT good"!!

There are some seriously talented, experienced players on the European team, and the scary thing for America, is many of them are young and will be around for several more Cups yet.

Where are the good young American players bursting forth?

Granted the Europeans have no majors between them, but although Toms and Furyk are steady, solid players, they have all of one major each.

It's evident that the top American players, Phil and Tiger, are unable to play a talismanic role for the team. Until a US captain is able to make that the case, their individual prowess will have a limited effect on the outcome of the matches.

[Ed Tilley]

Watch the highlights guys - not just of today's game, but of the first two days. See how many times the US team smiles compared to the Europeans. If one match could show why the Europeans win every time it's the Woods/Furyk v Garcia/Donald match on Friday afternoon. Woods and Furyk had their game face on - Garcia and Donald were having a ball, joking around and enjoying each other's company.

Honestly, if the majors were played in pairs Sergio would win every week. In 16 foursome and fourballs matches his record is 13-1-2!! You'd better learn how to play as a team because, frankly, the Europeans have won the last 3 singles because they have greater strength in depth.

Maybe it's time for Jack Nicklaus to step in and suggest that you include South and Central America as well. Cabrera, Villegas - they could really add something to your team.

[Anthony Butler]

I'm with George Pazin...I think a few of you American gents have got the blinkers on - the best team is winning. It's time to re-write that slogan: "These guys are NOT good"!!

Maybe it just needs an addendum.... "These guys are good. They're just not all American."

[Nick Pozaric]

I'm with George Pazin...I think a few of you American gents have got the blinkers on - the best team is winning. It's time to re-write that slogan: "These guys are NOT good"!!

Maybe it just needs an addendum.... "These guys are good. They're just not all American."

I heard somewhere, These guys are good, the Europeans are just better

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