Transitioning from bent to poa question

[peter_p]

Have any of your club's greens transitioned from bent grass to poa annua? How long does it take? Can anything be done to speed up the change? What should not be done? Any answers would be appreciated.

The course in question is in the Willamette Valley of Oregon, and the decision has been made and is underway.

[Joe Hancock]

Over water like you've never over watered before......that will tip the scales in favor of poa.

 

Joe

[JohnV]

Peter, I remember Bill Webster, the superintendent at Pumpkin Ridge, said that it could take 5 years to completely transition (assuming you weren't trying to accelerate the process in some way) and that for those 5 years the greens would be inconsistent, but after that they should be as good as any in Portland.

From what I saw earlier this year, that transition is underway at Pumpkin Ridge now and has been for a couple of years.  They can still get the greens really good with effort, but probably not every day like they used to be.

[TEPaul]

Just leave the course alone. It will transition to poa all by itself.  

God and The Fates took revenge on Golfers with poa annua during the Creation due to Man's Original Sin.

It was either that or William Morris, Horace Hutchinson, Gertrude Jekyll, George Riddell and his Country Life Magazine  and particularly the English A/C movement being as world-wide pervasive as Tom MacWood claims they were was responsible for poa annua. They apparently thought it to be "more natural". That's one thing they were probably right about and it could be the new undiscovered reason that the A/C movement really was a powerful influence on the Great Golden Age of Golf. I hereby suggest that the great Golden Age of Golf should not be termed the "Golden Age" OR "Arts and Crafts Golf" (as Tom MacWood suggests) but that it should more appropriately be relabeled "Poa Annua Golf".  

But then the ultimate question becomes should poa annua itself also be considered either a "vernacular art or craft" or even an integrated "art form", as per Morris' "philosophy" of integrating all art forms world-wide?

[Dan_Lucas]

Are they transitioning by overseeding poa or going the natural way?

If overseeding, the basics are to shock the existing grass (bent) as much as possible. Verticutting and aerifying the #!*# out of it, scalping it down, then overseeding with the desired grass. Fertilize with starter fertilizer, topdress heavily to cover the seed and water to keep the top inch damp. Keep the mowers off as long as possible. It would help if you could keep traffic off also. Maybe do two or three at a time w/ temp greens for the two weeks or so needed to get a good catch.

If going the natural way, Joe is right, heavy water and fertilizer will do it, but it will also give you a strain of poa that will only do well under those conditions. Not a very good playing surface.

[TEPaul]

Peter:

What you need is the tel # of HVGC's Scott Anderson. He's spent years in a process he calls "hardening off" his poa strains. And the point is HVGC may've been the first golf course in Amerca to dedicately transition from soft and water-logged conditions to a real firm and fast maintenance program. They've been doing it since just about 1981.

It's Darwinian, Man, it's the survival of the fittest. It's called Just Let Nature Do its Own Thng----that's what it does best.  

[Joe Hancock]

Just leave the course alone. It will transition to poa all by itself.  

Amen

I love Poa greens.  With proper care and tolerance they are very very good and hard to destroy.

R,

That's the only real problem with poa. "Proper care" is very expensive and not very sustainable. It requires a lot of input in the form of water and fungicides. Not that some mutations of poa don't perform better than others, or that there aren't a very few places that poa is happy without too much care, but the normal situation in which you and I play on "good" poa is somewhere with outlandish budgets and extensive irrigation systems and regimes. I'm not sure that the golf industry can keep promoting that type of golf model to the people paying the bills or the legislators running our governments.

For the time being, however, enjoy that luxurious poa.

Joe

[tonyt]

Joe,

We sometims have that debate on an Australian forum. Not flying a poa flag here, but one of the very good points raised by its advocates is that a lot of our regional area courses (in various areas with various different climates) that charge less than $US300-350 per year in membership and have 1 or at most 2 full time staff of at best adequate qualifications on the golf course seem to be able to offer equal or better putting green surfaces to many of our world famous sandbelt courses. And they have great greens all year round, in winter or during a hot dry drought. They also never seem to suffer the stereotype poa problems such as sprouting heads effecting the trueness.

That so many of these humble places exist has convinced me that poa doesn't automatically HAVE to be difficult to maintain, even if it can be.

[Jon Wiggett]

Peter, very few clubs try and do this although it isn't very hard. Lots of water and fertiliser especially P but don't be surprised if your greens are in bad shape for most of the year.

[Steve Okula]

Po' Anna, the impovrished turf of golf greens, is so misunderstood.

I've never been to Oregon, an I don't know if you are on the wet side of the state in Willamette Valley, but in cool, wet climates, Poa annua out performs every other species in every way, including year round putting surface and budget economy.

If you want to encourage the transition, then there are steps to be taken.

True, water helps, but there is no need to over-water until the greens play like baskets of wet laundry. Simply install a weather station and computer controlled automatic system and water each day to account for evapo-transpitration rates. The greens will be firm enough, and the Poa will thrive.

There are over 300 identified subspecies/genotypes/varieties of Poa annua. Most are ugly, but a precious few make the most outstanding putting surfaces on earth. Unfortunately, the most desirable subspecies of Poa are generally the least prolific seed producers. Nevertheless, if there are any courses near you with Poa greens you admire, ask them if you can have some of their mower clippings during the spring, when the seedheads are abundant. Mix those up with topdressing on your greens. This is best to do right after you aerate. If their greens arent producing any seed head to speak of, then ask for some aerator plugs and plant those in a nursery where you can let the plants grow up higher to harvest the seed.

While transitioning, mow low. Keep it under an eigth inch all year (3 mm). the Poa competes better with other species at lower heights. Also, the golfers will appreciate the speed.

Presuming you want the greens to play well during the transition, don't overdo the fertilizer. Three pounds/year of nitrogen is plenty, but double that in potassium. Spoon feed, applying miniscule doses weekly via liquid applications with a sprayer. Phosphorous won't make any difference, outside of the textbooks.

Also for transitional playing quality, begin a program of the growth regulators Primo and Proxy in tandem. This is essential to maintain uniformity and consistency on the putting surface. When it's done correctly, 98% of the people who play the greens won't notice that you are 50% Poa and 50% bentgrass.

Yes, you will nedd to initiate a preventative fungicide ("the "F" word!) program. I've been on one for years, and still I have managed a happy and productive life with a loving family.

Of course, these are only my opinions, and I may be wrong.

(But I doubt it).

[Dave_Wilber]

Good words here from Steve and others.

JADP, but I don't think you have to be wet and compromise playing conditions to evoke good transitiion to Poa and I don't think that anyone ever transitiions all the bent out. Some hangs on so there really isn't any sense in trying to reverse the wet/dry thing. Many wildtypes of Poa do fairly well in dry conditiions and this is very much a regional thing.

Because the photosynthetic rate on Poa is at least twice that of Bent, keeping the height of cut low, especially in the wintertime of a 12 month season area is a really good advancement technique.

We don't guess on the fertility, we test and make sure that plant food nutirients are in good supply at the right times. Using a lot of N isn't necessary, but changing the way we use it is. This also has a lot to do with soil parent types. If we are transitioning a fairly new USGA or other sand based system, the approach to N and OM management is different than a more soil based system.

We closely monitor clipping yield and try to make an effort at groing as much grass as possible w/o being unable to keep some kind of speed. Then we try to make sure that fertility levels are such that we don't have a roller coaster of growth, but a more uniform thing, even in the hot weather.

Disease mangement is important during transitiion and while I never like to, a well placed fungicie treatment to keep young Poa in the game is often necessary.

Hope this helps!

DW

[peter_p]

Thanks guys, keep it coming. We have 35-40" of rain a year, 80% Oct-Mar. 85F is a warm day, but this year we set a record for most 90F+ days in a calenday year.

[Troy Alderson]

Peter,

Steve Okula gives very good advise on transitioning to poa annua.  Nothing special needs to be done.  Just maintain the conditions for green turf always and poa will flourish.

I would add not removing the plugs during aeration, vertical cut the plugs and drag them back into the soil profile.

With what your club is demanding of the course (green), poa greens are probably the best bet for the climate.

Troy Alderson

[peter_p]

There is a nearby course which recently went NLE named Orenco Woods. I doubt that any maintenance has been done on their greens since it closed. If we could get permission, how would we go about harvesting their assumedly poa greens. Are coring, sodding, or mowings equally feasible and efficient?

[Troy Alderson]

Peter,

Just the cores if your Supt were to go over and core aerate the greens and harvest the cores, use them as topdressing for your greens.  I will be by next week to talk with your Supt about the equipment.  I will send you my cell number and we can meet up maybe.

Troy