Angels Crossing and Notre Dame

[David Wigler]

After two years of threatening to do so, I finally made it to Angels Crossing.  WOW!  Angels Crossing is clearly a Midwest version of what GCA considers Rustic Canyon to be.  It is very inexpensive and unbelievably visual.  The green complexes are brilliant and some of the most challenging, demanding and thought provoking I have ever played in a modern course.  The course has extreme lateral width, so it allows for the higher handicap to play, while clearly having preferred angles to reward the low.  Frankly I loved it and am convinced that if it was near a major city, it would be knee deep in publicity.

On top of all of this, I had the pleasure of playing with Owner and devout Notre Dame fan Jim Thompson.  For 18 holes, I got to hear all about how Notre Dame was going to kick Michigan in the teeth the next day and assuming Jay and him recovered from the JagerBombs at the tailgate they would be in attendance to see it.  I only gave my opinion once - Michigan in a blow out.  It almost seems unfair to mention this given how hospitable they were (We didn't even add up the scores for the bet but lets just say that Mikey and I beat Jim and Jay by about the same margin as Michigan beat Notre Dame  ).

Seriously, any trip to Western Michigan that does not include Angels Crossing and Pilgrim's Run is an error.  They are both on the level of Lost Dunes and by including Point O Woods, there is an amazing 2-day 36 hole fest to be had.

[PThomas]

thank goodness Jim is much better at designing and building golf courses than his Fighting (??) Irish are at playing football

[Jim Thompson]

You know, sometimes you just know things are going to happen like this post.  This may be a good time for a bit of Paul Harvey and the rest of the story to make a showing...

For starters let's cover Dave's call letting me know that he would be late for his tee time.  It didn't start with a "hey how's its going" or some other common intro, rather it began with a very serious toned "Have you been listening to the radio?"  My response, expecting some 9-11esque alert, was a simple "No, what's up?"  Wigler’s response was a classic preemptive haze. It began, “Well they just picked up Brady Quinn in a three way with his sister and that linebacker from Ohio State.  The ND administration isn’t going to let him play.”  My slightly unflustered response was along the lines of ”Well, she is pretty cute.”

Now in Dave’s defense he had no idea he was going to have to play with an ND zealot and haze artist in my Fraternity brother – Jason Miller. For those that have met me the comparison I will give is that Jason not only thinks faster than me he does not edit anything before it comes out of his mouth.  At least I try to be polite.  Factor in the fact that David was being hazed by his own playing partner the entire round and it is no wonder he is taking any chance to get even with somebody.  It’s OK, I have big shoulders and yes I already know G-d gave them to me to make my ass look smaller.

The team event was less then a contest due to Jason playing almost the worst round of his life topped off by his breaking a driver on the tenth tee during his downswing.  As for our trip to the ND game the bad luck continued ten fold.  We lost a cooler full of beer on the way down due to what we are assuming was a faulty tailgate.  Jason burnt his forehead and lost most of an eyebrow changing the propane on our portable grill (he wasn’t even drunk yet).  Jason pulled his traditional bag of in the shell peanuts out of his pocket and it subsequently ripped all over the stands.  The game.  I even got in the act by getting a speeding ticket on the way back.


So all in all I've been hazed enough.  Karmah is Karmah.  It was great to have David out to see his bunker!  I only wish we had remembered a camera to shot of him with it.  Mike was a treat as well.  Had I only known Paul Thomas was one of the enemy though...  I'll certainly be giving him more grief next time

Cheers!

JT

[mikes1160]

Jim,

It's okay. You can always have this in your hip pocket when playing David:

The career of Bo S (why do they revere this guy?)

1969: Michigan wins the Big 10 but then loses the Rose Bowl to USC 10-3
1970: Michigan is 9-0 heading into Ohio State but comes up short 20-9
1971: Michigan is 11-0 and facing heavy underdog Stanford in the Rose Bowl: 13-12 Stanford
1972: 10-0 heading into OSU: 14-11 Buckeyes
1973: 10-0 and Michigan has Ohio State at home: 10-10 tie and the conference athletic directors vote to send the Buckeyes to the Rose Bowl
1974: 10-0 heading into Columbus: 12-10 Buckeyes
1975: 8-0-2 and have OSU at home: 21-14 OSU. But good news, the Big 10 now allows other Big 10 teams to go to a bowl. 14-6 Oklahoma over Michigan in the Orange Bowl
1976: Inexplicable 16-14 loss to Purdue, but Michigan finally gets by Ohio State and goes to the Rose Bowl. Oh goody: 14-6 USC
1977: Another dumb conference loss, this one 16-0 to Minnesota. But they beat the Buckeyes and they're back in the Rose Bowl and a huge favorite over 7-4 Washington, so finally Michigan's going to win the Rose Bowl. Oops: 27-20 Washington
1978: This time the conference gag is against MSU but the Wolves beat the Bucks again and are back in the Rose Bowl. Same song, 18th verse: 17-10 USC
1979: Michigan has Devine's worst team in Ann Arbor and the Wolves have already tuned up on Northwestern and it's ND's opener. No matter, Bob Crable blocks a game-winning FG attempt and ND wins 12-10. 8-3 Michigan finally gets an easy bowl opponent, UNC in the Gator Bowl. Thanks for playing Bo: 17-15 UNC.
1980: Finally Michigan wins a Rose Bowl (over Washington). But a 51-yard FG by Harry Oliver beats UM in ND stadium. The next week the stunned Wolves also lose to South Carolina, removing them from NC consideration.
1981: Bo finally beats ND (Faust's 5-6 team) and beats UCLA in a bowl game. The bad news? It's the Bluebonnet Bowl.
1982: Bo gets beat by Faust but still makes it to the Rose Bowl at 8-3 and plays UCLA. UCLA wins of course, 24-14.
1983: Good news: ND's off the schedule for Bo. Bad news, they have to play Washington again and lose 27-25. 9-2 Michigan gets invited to the Sugar Bowl where they lose to Auburn 9-7. Bo has now managed to lose 3 of the then-Big 4 bowls.
1984: Michigan flops around to a 6-5 record and then makes history as the weakest opponent ever in a bowl game for a national championship team as BYU gets by them 24-17 to claim the NC even though BYU would've been a 2-touchdown underdog to either Oklahoma or Nebraska.
1985: A conference loss to Iowa and a tie with Illinois keeps UM out of the Rose Bowl and NC consideration. UM does beat Nebraska in the Fiesta Bowl.
1986: Familiar scene. ND is jobbed by a bad call as the game-winning TD is ruled out of bounds. UM somehow loses to Minnesota in Ann Arbor but still makes it to the Rose Bowl where the Wolves lose 22-15 to ASU. ASU is now the 5th Pac 8 or 10 team to beat Bo's teams in the Rose Bowl.
1987: Lou drills UM 26-7 in Ann Arbor. Michigan suffers 3 more losses to go 8-4.
1988: Gillette's miss allows ND to win 19-17 setting up ND's 12-0 season. UM does finally manage to win the Rose Bowl over USC. ND defeats both participants in the Rose Bowl during the regular season.
1989: Rocket runs back two kickoffs and Michigan loses 24-19. Michigan plays well and wins the next 10 before losing the Rose Bowl to USC. ND beats both participants in the Rose Bowl, again.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jim.
 It's O.K.. I'll never forget the image of Bo's very last game (At least I think it was) at the Rose Bowl against USC.

I gave my Dad tickets for the game (he'went to USC). It was Junior Seau's senior year. Anyway, Michigan got this holding penalty that called a huge gain back and I saw the entire play from our end zone seats. It was holding all the way--twice! Anyway, Bo takes this clipboard, and I mean he buries the thing into the ground, he threw it that hard and it sticks like a knife. The head set got thrown too. Absolutely buried it into the ground and the ensuing mouthful of spit that the ref got from Bo's complaining was high comedy.

I hate Bo Schembechler with a passion!

[Kyle Harris]

Just gotta say it again.

Career Bowl Victories:

Joe Paterno: 22
The University of Michigan: 18

That is all.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike Scaletta,

USC doesn't play in the Rose Bowl. They play at the Coliseum.

[PThomas]

Jim,

It's okay. You can always have this in your hip pocket when playing David:

The career of Bo S (why do they revere this guy?)

1969: Michigan wins the Big 10 but then loses the Rose Bowl to USC 10-3
1970: Michigan is 9-0 heading into Ohio State but comes up short 20-9
1971: Michigan is 11-0 and facing heavy underdog Stanford in the Rose Bowl: 13-12 Stanford
1972: 10-0 heading into OSU: 14-11 Buckeyes
1973: 10-0 and Michigan has Ohio State at home: 10-10 tie and the conference athletic directors vote to send the Buckeyes to the Rose Bowl
1974: 10-0 heading into Columbus: 12-10 Buckeyes
1975: 8-0-2 and have OSU at home: 21-14 OSU. But good news, the Big 10 now allows other Big 10 teams to go to a bowl. 14-6 Oklahoma over Michigan in the Orange Bowl
1976: Inexplicable 16-14 loss to Purdue, but Michigan finally gets by Ohio State and goes to the Rose Bowl. Oh goody: 14-6 USC
1977: Another dumb conference loss, this one 16-0 to Minnesota. But they beat the Buckeyes and they're back in the Rose Bowl and a huge favorite over 7-4 Washington, so finally Michigan's going to win the Rose Bowl. Oops: 27-20 Washington
1978: This time the conference gag is against MSU but the Wolves beat the Bucks again and are back in the Rose Bowl. Same song, 18th verse: 17-10 USC
1979: Michigan has Devine's worst team in Ann Arbor and the Wolves have already tuned up on Northwestern and it's ND's opener. No matter, Bob Crable blocks a game-winning FG attempt and ND wins 12-10. 8-3 Michigan finally gets an easy bowl opponent, UNC in the Gator Bowl. Thanks for playing Bo: 17-15 UNC.
1980: Finally Michigan wins a Rose Bowl (over Washington). But a 51-yard FG by Harry Oliver beats UM in ND stadium. The next week the stunned Wolves also lose to South Carolina, removing them from NC consideration.
1981: Bo finally beats ND (Faust's 5-6 team) and beats UCLA in a bowl game. The bad news? It's the Bluebonnet Bowl.
1982: Bo gets beat by Faust but still makes it to the Rose Bowl at 8-3 and plays UCLA. UCLA wins of course, 24-14.
1983: Good news: ND's off the schedule for Bo. Bad news, they have to play Washington again and lose 27-25. 9-2 Michigan gets invited to the Sugar Bowl where they lose to Auburn 9-7. Bo has now managed to lose 3 of the then-Big 4 bowls.
1984: Michigan flops around to a 6-5 record and then makes history as the weakest opponent ever in a bowl game for a national championship team as BYU gets by them 24-17 to claim the NC even though BYU would've been a 2-touchdown underdog to either Oklahoma or Nebraska.
1985: A conference loss to Iowa and a tie with Illinois keeps UM out of the Rose Bowl and NC consideration. UM does beat Nebraska in the Fiesta Bowl.
1986: Familiar scene. ND is jobbed by a bad call as the game-winning TD is ruled out of bounds. UM somehow loses to Minnesota in Ann Arbor but still makes it to the Rose Bowl where the Wolves lose 22-15 to ASU. ASU is now the 5th Pac 8 or 10 team to beat Bo's teams in the Rose Bowl.
1987: Lou drills UM 26-7 in Ann Arbor. Michigan suffers 3 more losses to go 8-4.
1988: Gillette's miss allows ND to win 19-17 setting up ND's 12-0 season. UM does finally manage to win the Rose Bowl over USC. ND defeats both participants in the Rose Bowl during the regular season.
1989: Rocket runs back two kickoffs and Michigan loses 24-19. Michigan plays well and wins the next 10 before losing the Rose Bowl to USC. ND beats both participants in the Rose Bowl, again.

wow!  is that ugly!

[mikes1160]

Tommy,

Should have been stated as "beat both Rose Bowl participants".........

[T_MacWood]

Kyle
That is a misleading stat. Into the mid 70s the Big Ten only sent one team - the Big Ten champion - to a bowl, the Rose Bowl. And that team could not have gone the year before. There were some great TOSU and Michigan (and MSU, Purdue, Minnesota teams) teams that never went bowling. I'd guess Paterno has more bowl wins than every team in the Big Ten and ND too for that matter, who didn't start going to bowls until the 70s.

Paterno is a great coach....but what is his record against TOSU and Michigan since entering the Big Ten?

[David Wigler]

Kyle
That is a misleading stat. Into the mid 70s the Big Ten only sent one team - the Big Ten champion - to a bowl, the Rose Bowl. And that team could not have gone the year before. There were some great TOSU and Michigan (and MSU, Purdue, Minnesota teams) teams that never went bowling. I'd guess Paterno has more bowl wins than every team in the Big Ten and ND too for that matter, who didn't start going to bowls until the 70s.

Paterno is a great coach....but what is his record against TOSU and Michigan since entering the Big Ten?

Tom,

I only disagree with one point.  Paterno was a great coach, not is.  Penn State is 3-7 against Michigan and has not beat them in this century.  Since Penn State joined the Big Ten and started playing a real schedule instead of Women's Colleges and D2 schools (Oh Wait, they still do that - except that now they can only do it three times a year) Paterno's record is very mediocre compared to Michigan or Ohio State.  In fact if Paterno retired tomorrow, Lloyd Carr (And I am no Lloyd Carr fan) would have to go 4 - 17 to equal Joe Pa's ineptitude against a real schedule.

[David Wigler]

You know, sometimes you just know things are going to happen like this post.  This may be a good time for a bit of Paul Harvey and the rest of the story to make a showing...

For starters let's cover Dave's call letting me know that he would be late for his tee time.  It didn't start with a "hey how's its going" or some other common intro, rather it began with a very serious toned "Have you been listening to the radio?"  My response, expecting some 9-11esque alert, was a simple "No, what's up?"  Wigler’s response was a classic preemptive haze. It began, “Well they just picked up Brady Quinn in a three way with his sister and that linebacker from Ohio State.  The ND administration isn’t going to let him play.”  My slightly unflustered response was along the lines of ”Well, she is pretty cute.”

Now in Dave’s defense he had no idea he was going to have to play with an ND zealot and haze artist in my Fraternity brother – Jason Miller. For those that have met me the comparison I will give is that Jason not only thinks faster than me he does not edit anything before it comes out of his mouth.  At least I try to be polite.  Factor in the fact that David was being hazed by his own playing partner the entire round and it is no wonder he is taking any chance to get even with somebody.  It’s OK, I have big shoulders and yes I already know G-d gave them to me to make my ass look smaller.

The team event was less then a contest due to Jason playing almost the worst round of his life topped off by his breaking a driver on the tenth tee during his downswing.  As for our trip to the ND game the bad luck continued ten fold.  We lost a cooler full of beer on the way down due to what we are assuming was a faulty tailgate.  Jason burnt his forehead and lost most of an eyebrow changing the propane on our portable grill (he wasn’t even drunk yet).  Jason pulled his traditional bag of in the shell peanuts out of his pocket and it subsequently ripped all over the stands.  The game.  I even got in the act by getting a speeding ticket on the way back.


So all in all I've been hazed enough.  Karmah is Karmah.  It was great to have David out to see his bunker!  I only wish we had remembered a camera to shot of him with it.  Mike was a treat as well.  Had I only known Paul Thomas was one of the enemy though...  I'll certainly be giving him more grief next time

Cheers!

JT

Mea Culpa on my part.  In retrospect, Jim was letting Jay and Mikey do most the taunting of me.  I almost feel bad for my shots at Notre Dame.  His course was great though and the company could not have been better.  

[Jim Thompson]

I almost feel bad for my shots at Notre Dame.  

You ought to be in sales!!!  Maybe you can sell that to a union rep in your area.

His course was great though and the company could not have been better.  

All in good fun!  It is always great to enjoy the company of great people and you are definitely one.  As for the course, we continue to appreciate the compliments!

JT

[RJ_Daley]

Mike Scaletta, wow!!!  When you see it all spelled out in black and white, year by year, that truly is pretty stinky.  

I hope the UW can make a showing next weekend in Ann Arbor after their traditionally soft pre-conference scrimages.  I confess I have pretty low expectations.  But, with a history like that which Mike posted, I'd say we might have a chance.

But David, you have hit the nail on the head about Big Jim Thompson's golf course.  I can't wait to return there, and particularly to conquer the tee ball on 4.  It is fine as it is, I just need to settle down and F O C U S.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kyle,
  It's ok...just don't forget the Michigan is THEE WINNINGEST D1 College Program of all time with over 850 wins....Notre Dame is second with a little over 800...I can't seem to find PSU....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[mikes1160]

Anthony,

Even that is dubious, since Michigan started playing "football" in 1879 and ND in 1888..........given the fact that touchdowns were five points and the opponents were medical colleges - or even high schools, college football really shouldn't be taken seriously until 1910, when the NCAA was formed. At that point, four Michigan national championships are claimed (1901-1904).........the more you know  

[Doug Ralston]

Of course they are Anthony. Afterall, they started playing back when they were 'The Heros of the West'. I assume you know what that means. UM started winning just before the 1st pyramid was finished! Won a game nearly every year since.

Actually, I read the list of 'terrible results' for Shembeckler (sp?) and thought about most other coaches in college football. Would they, at the end of their careers, take Bo's results? You cannot seriously doubt it! At Indiana U, or Arizona, a record like that would make the coach a legend [as it actually has at Michigan.

I once came in 2nd in the US Amatuer Chess Championship. Several of my friend came to sympathize with me. But I came in 2nd in the US!! Jesus Christ, why do we have this '1st or lost!' attitude?

[Jfaspen]

Well if Michigan State wins this weekend, I might just drive down to Vicksburg and plant the MSU flag next to the putting green at Angels Crossing

Go Green.

Jeff

[Jim Thompson]

Jeff,

I was actually at the game where the Spartans did that at ND and was wearing a Spartan Jersey when it happened!  I have favored the Irish ever since.  I don't think you'd care to experience what happens to those that disrespect my course, most end up with a bunker named after them , but it would be nice to have you down.

Cheers!

JT

[Kyle Harris]

Hey Wigler,

Lemme get this straight, PSU plays ONE D-1AA school in the past 100 years and suddenly they're playing patsies? Do you know why PSU had to play Youngstown State? Please look it up before spouting off. Michigan beating up on Vanderbilt and Central Michigan isn't exactly all that great either. Also, joining a conference has made PSU schedule patsy non-conference opponents, since the Big Ten and MAC have an agreement for at least one game for every team against each other per season. At least we got the MAC Champion (Akron) this year.

Also, the fact that Penn State is WINNING bowls is proof that despite the so-called patsy schedule is misleading. Look at which teams PSU was beating in those bowls, and by the way, tOSU is one of them (1980 Fiesta Bowl).

During the 70s and 80s, Penn State played Alabama, Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame during the height of their respective programs and consistently won against all of them.

Are you saying that Michigan playing Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota during the same span is comparable?

Isn't the only reason the game was called "The game" because it was essentially the Big Ten championship game?

BTW, you've won both of your last games against PSU with a little help. Please go back to the 2002 game and tell me why Tony Johnson was ruled OB on that catch inside the 20 with a minute left when he had control of the ball with both feet in bounds. Go back to last year and learn how to properly call time out.

When you do this, I'll send you a Lloyd Carr football package, including a clock that adds two seconds to every hour and a down and distance marker that measures 9 yards in one direction and 11 yards in the other.

Furthermore, if Lloyd Carr is even allowed to come back next year, he can be a year closer to Paterno's 40+ years in PSU's program, and if you guys keep winning, he'll only have 5 more undefeated seasons to make up. How can a team go two consecutive seasons undefeated without even getting a shot at the National Championship? I dunno, but go back to 1969-1970 to find out.

At least Paterno can beat Jim Tressel.

Tony Nysse,

Penn State is #6 on that list - not bad for a school who spent most of the teens and twenties playing 4-6 game schedules due to the location of the school.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kyle,
  I love it! I'm just going by the record books!   It's weird cause I grew up a Michigan fan, though went to MSU for Turfgrass....I take a TON of S***, believe me! I had an intern from OSU this year and he reminded me that UM hasn't beat OSU in a while, though didn't UM ruin PSU's perfect season and a chance at a National title last year.......

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[T_MacWood]

Kyle
What is Paterno's record against Jim Tressel (going into the game this Saturday)?

[George Pazin]

As a Pitt fan all my life (what I can remember anyway, my dad taught at the med school for 22 years), even I find it somewhat distasteful, not to mention misleading, to compare JoePa's latter years record to the others. The Nittany Tide took the Big 10 on its shoulders and lifted the whole thing up when it joined the conference - prior to that they were a Pac 10 punching bag, which is somewhat akin to being a Gerry Cooney punching bag.

As for Jim's course, based on his posts, I am not the least bit surprised the reviews would be positive - in fact, I would have been shocked if they were anything but. I'm generally not a fan of the phrase, but Jim Thompson strikes me as someone who definitely gets it. Hope I get there, sooner rather than later.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle
What is Paterno's record against Jim Tressel (going into the game this Saturday)?

2-3

[Lyman Gallup]

It appears GCA posters are even more passionate about football than they are golf course design.