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Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Your Judgement Course
« on: September 16, 2006, 05:57:37 PM »
A Judgement course is a course you judge others by. In other words, you know it’s a bad course, so if anybody tells you how much they love it, you immediately dismiss them as knowing nothing.

It’s probably that typical course that is architecturally horrific, but beautifully maintained.

Now, before you get all politically correct on me & say something like, “each to their own”, or “people can like what they want, even if they don’t agree with me”, I know you have a Judgement course, even if you don’t admit it to yourself.

So what is it ?

Mine is The Australian.
I don’t have to worry. None of my friends who like The Australian read GCA. (Or are my friends anymore. ::))

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 06:17:57 PM »
I really like your idea, Andrew, but I think you can extend it past just courses that you personally dislike. That's one of the few good things about the rankings stuff for me - it gives me a good idea of what each poster looks for and values in a course.

P.S. Don't ever say Medinah is your judgement course. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2006, 06:21:45 PM »
A number of years ago I played Oakmont with my best friend. After the round this brilliant Phd said, "I never need to come back here again."  Being the confirmed believer in non-violence I did the only thing I could think of--I hit him.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

rgkeller

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 06:44:05 PM »
National Golf Links

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 06:46:45 PM »
Slaley Hall Hunting
Moor Allerton
Dalmahoy
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2006, 07:31:38 PM »
RG Keller,
I should have mailed a bet in.

Coming from the land of Nothingness which is in the county of Mediocrity in the State of Disarray, I will immediately elect the wonderful, beautiful Tustin "Raunch" Golf Club, a biproduct of Ted Robinson nothingness whith nary a single hole I could even suggest of architectural interest. I would rather have teeth pulled (without the benefit of novacaine) then play there.

Tustin Raunch isn't a golf course, it's a freeking fairytail of an amusment park which if you asked any OC snob (of the clueless variety) they would tell you it's the best course ever built with bunkers and caddies dressed as if they were at Augusta. (They only know it as Augusta and it's their only must play before I die--golf course, even though they never will, unless they are top brass for some Fortune 500 company and get wined and dined there by some back east company who knows they are clueless, yet doesn't care because they do oddles of business with them just for the chance to play Augusta.)

I hate Tustin Raunch.

Jim Nugent

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 03:20:56 AM »
Tommy, seems like Tustin Ranch had one or two decent holes on the back.  Can't remember them, though...

TEPaul

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 06:51:44 AM »
I don't have a "judgement" course because I believe in the "Big World" theory of golf architecture.

"Golf and its architecture is a great big thing and there really is room in it for everyone."

(Translation; People who have really bad taste have just as much right to their tastes as people with good taste do). ;)

The only place I draw the line is when people with really bad taste try to recommend things on courses to people who have really good taste. My only policy in that eventuality is to say nothing but to take out my .45 and just lay it on the table.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 07:10:34 AM »
Andrew,

Everyone likes different things but IMO there's a couple of courses that I've come across in my time that spring to mind.....

In the UK:
Old Head of Kinsale

In Australia:
Lakelands

TEPaul

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2006, 07:43:37 AM »
"A Judgement course is a course you judge others by. In other words, you know it’s a bad course, so if anybody tells you how much they love it, you immediately dismiss them as knowing nothing."

KevinP:

You can call me a golf architectural dolt then because I like Old Head in Kinsale. I realize that some highly respected architectural folk like Ran Morrissett and Tom Doak who do know a thing or two about architecture have fairly roundly panned Old Head's architecture.

That doesn't matter much to me though. I say to people like Morrissett and Doak that they should just open their mind a bit more, and stop being so fixated on golf architecture only when it comes a place like Old Head. They should open their minds more when it comes to other things and stop being such boneheads about other chararcteristics of golf sites, most certainly a site like Old Head in Kinsale, Ireland.

Do you realize that Old Head itself is the original home of the Iaeriann race (the original Irish people) some many, many millenia ago?

I mean how often do you get to play golf on an awe-inspiring site like Old Head with that kind of aura and those kinds of people around you?

I had a wonderful time playing golf there and most of that joyful day involved communing with many of those little Iaerianns who were there palpably for me.

Apparently they aren't more than about two feet in height and I observed them running all over the place, cavorting and cackling.

I must admit that perhaps my consideration for them and Old Head golf course and its architecture has to do with a certain sense of guilt, as walking off that beautiful 6th tee I believe I stepped on one of them and broke his collar bone.


Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2006, 07:51:54 AM »
Wolf Creek

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2006, 09:14:50 AM »
Kevin

The Old Head is in Ireland
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2006, 09:34:47 AM »
Kevin

The Old Head is in Ireland

Padraig

The British Isles ;) apologies.....I had better restate it then:

In Britain & Ireland:
Old Head of Kinsale

Which course would you nominate ?


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2006, 10:37:32 AM »
In my region of Wisconsin, I'd have to say, Lawsonia Woodlands course.  When folks talk about going somewhere special regionally in Wisconsin, and want to go to Lawsonia to play, but only want to play the Woodland course, and state that the Links is not so beautiful... well I just find and excuse not to go with them. ::)  It isn't a terrible course, but it does aid me in formulating a judgement by comparison of someone's golf tastes (to which they and I are entitled of course).
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2006, 10:43:36 AM »
Kevin

I don't think I've met too may people who think the Old Head is a good course, never mind a great one. It's a reasonable course to play, but the surroundings really embellish the experience.

I don't really have a judgement course, but when people talk about good shots getting punished, golf courses being unfair and not rewarding good shots, I think they need to start looking at courses and how to play them a bit closer.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2006, 03:01:42 PM »
I don't really have a judgement course, but when people talk about good shots getting punished, golf courses being unfair and not rewarding good shots, I think they need to start looking at courses and how to play them a bit closer.

Tremendous post!
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2006, 04:59:36 PM »
I don't have a "judgement" course because I believe in the "Big World" theory of golf architecture.

"Golf and its architecture is a great big thing and there really is room in it for everyone."

(Translation; People who have really bad taste have just as much right to their tastes as people with good taste do). ;)

The only place I draw the line is when people with really bad taste try to recommend things on courses to people who have really good taste. My only policy in that eventuality is to say nothing but to take out my .45 and just lay it on the table.

I understand what you are saying & agree with it.

...but, isn't there that little voice inside. You may not verbalise it, but it's there. Y'know, when someone mentions how much they love a particular course & your first unadulterated, primeval reaction is, "Oh my God, I can't believe they actually liked that course."

Then you slot into your 'Big World' theory.

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2006, 05:08:38 PM »
Metropolitan.  Good course, but I struggle to take people seriously when they argue its amongst Australia's best.

Andy Levett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2006, 07:48:48 PM »
Slaley Hall Hunting
Moor Allerton
Dalmahoy
Moor Allerton is a very good call. There's so many things not to like and so many other good courses literally or vitrually over the fence.
What I really, really hate is the way the 1st and 10th fairways play downhill to parralel fairways (in tandem with one of the loops back,  and you're supposed to be amused at the balls hitting you on your head). It's a heretical thought, but maybe RTJ just looked at the aerials and mailed it in....)
 In any event, it iS dangerous,

Jesse Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 12:54:21 AM »
O.K. I'll bite..
Longaberger..

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2006, 02:23:47 AM »
He has the Longaberger bag tag to prove it! ;)

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2006, 04:05:58 AM »
Moor Allerton is a very good call. There's so many things not to like and so many other good courses literally or vitrually over the fence.
Quite.  I played it in between days at Alwoodley and Moortown.  A stark contrast.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

ForkaB

Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2006, 06:35:59 AM »
Can't think of one.  Sorry.... :'(

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2006, 06:51:12 AM »
Mark, if you are looking for somewhere to play along with Alwoodley and Moortown give Pannal a go.  It's a pretty solid course with several very good holes and a number of decent ones.  The 18th is not great, though.  Sand Moor is a much altered Mackenzie with a pretty competitive membership.
An interesing aternative is Huddersfield.  Shipley is, I believe, quite a characterful MacKenzie course but I don't know it personally.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Judgement Course
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2006, 06:51:47 AM »
I think my most disappointing course is St Pierre.

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