Potential complete course regrass at Palmetto

[John Shimp]

My club Palmetto is contemplating a complete regrassing of the playing surfaces within the next year.  The potential work is being advised by Hanse design.  Prior to the regrass would be, green surveying and some rebuild work including a core out to 16", drainage installation and refinishing to the survey grades.  Also, around 100 trees would need removed to support the new green grass selection and some waste areas of old would be redone.

Palmetto is located in the Aiken, SC and currently has common bermuda fairways and green surrounds and Tifdwarf greens.  The architects are, if the work is pursued, planning on using Mini Verde (other ultradwarfs TifEagle and Champion were considered) on the greens and switching to 419 bermuda for the rest.

Does anyone have experience with a project like this?  There is a membership mtg to discuss the work and the $ in a week or so.

The main driver of the work is that tifdwarf only  putts well for about 2/3 of the yr and needs overseeding.  Also, the club has generally been on a renovation streak since Tom Doak wrote a letter to the greens committee with some solid suggestions many of which have been put in place by the club.

[Paul Payne]

John,

Sorry I know nothing about turf. I do know the course.

Palmetto is one of my favorite courses and Aiken is one of the quiet getaways my wife and I take every year or so. She rides horses and I play golf. Then it's off to Charleston to eat for a few days. I'll be very interested in seeing the outcome.

Which are the waste areas you are thinking of reworking (removing?)?

[John Shimp]

Paul,
The waste areas they are trying to revive are on 2, 4 (which used to have 2 of them), 8, and 18.  They have been trying to bring more of the native fescue back also.  I hope they keep up  with going back to the old look and feel.
JS

[JWL]

Many courses have been faced with the decision on whether to switch to one of the new ultra dwarf bermudas in the last few years.
The bottom line is whether the club likes the overseeded greens in the winter.   The ultra dwarfs are so much more dense than the TifDwarf that overseeding is much more difficult...not impossible, but more difficult than the ultra dwarfs.   If overseeding is not a prerequisite, then the club will probably have to understand that in that environment there will be some period of winter time that the greens will go off color.   Sometimes greens are painted for a short period to overcome this.  Sometimes iron can bring in some color.   But, they will not have the appearance of overseeded greens during the cold periods and if the membership is used to that, then problems could occur.   Just be sure they know this going into the project.
It is a no brainer on getting rid of the common bermuda.
Much success is taking place with using the new paspalums in the fairways and roughs instead of 419 Bermuda in some parts of SC.   In Bluffton, the May River club is having great success, to my knowledge, with the paspalum fairways.   Just something new to consider.  
This is probably not new information to you since the club has some quality consultants, but you asked so I responded.
Good luck!

[Mike_Sweeney]

Overbrook GC in Philly did a regrass two summers ago. Kelly Moran did some work there, but I think the regrass was done in house. I know a bunch of members there but not anyone on the Greens Committee. I would contact Kelly, he would have the Super and Greens Chair contacts.

[ChasLawler]

John,
My club in Richmond, VA regrassed the fairways with TifSport Bermuda in 2002. Previously we had 419 I believe, and still have 419 and common bermuda in the rough. It's only been about 4 years since they did it, but the improvement in playing conditions has been significant. In addition the TifSport goes dormant about 3-4 weeks later than the 419 and comes back in about 3-4 earlier as well.

We do not overseed in the winter, and cut the TifSport a touch higher prior to it going dormant. Like all bermuda, it can get a little sloppy during a wet winter, but a dormant TifSport lie is close to perfect, and a dry winter last year gave us some of the best firm and fast playing conditions I've experienced in 5 years.

Unfortunately I can't offer too much insight on the greens as we have A4 bent.

[cary lichtenstein]

John:

We regrassed to 419 5 years ago and have to do it again as the 419 either was contaminated or mutated and is now a mess.

Cary

[John Shimp]

Cabell,
Interesting on the tifsport for the fairways.  From the ltr I received it appears that the decision to go with 419 was straightforward.  

The mini verde decision seems to have been thought over much more as all the ultradwarfs were considered as well as sticking with tifdwarf and even potentially installing bent.
Thanks.

Cary,
I hope we can stay away from mutant 419!