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Brad Klein

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2006, 11:04:50 AM »
I fell in love with golf via caddying when I was kid and always thought that was the greatest place to spend a day. Then I had to get a real job and earn money, teaching, but always tried to find a way back to golf. Like a lot of sports writers, I got into the profession second-hand, after teaching.

My idol was Herb Wind, who lived and worked in a simpler world. Fell in love with golf course architecture the second I finished reading his two-part series in Golf Digest in 1966. I soon started drawing golf courses to scale on  2' X 3' oak tag sheets, often copying the best holes I saw diagrammed in books and magazines Also started copying all of the great local holes I played or caddied. By 15-16 or so I converted this into a board-game style thing with dice where I could set odds up for every single shot - coordinated with yardage, wind, elevation and so on, and could play a round of golf there that way at my desk on the course I laid out, shooting anywhere from mid-60 to high-70s in a tournament style set up. I had percentages of yardage, degree of variance on yardage and angle, etc. all calculated to adjust to the throw of the dice. Rounds took about an hour.  

« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 10:00:26 PM by Brad Klein »

Ron Farris

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 11:16:16 AM »
Currently I am doing work as a golf course designer.
 
First layout was in our backyard - Sand Hills of Nebraska- at age 13.  My father was a greenkeeper and in the 7th grade I ran 6 miles to the course so I could play a round.  When I arrived at the course I was reprimanded, but allowed to play, but only after I picked up balls on the driving range.  As I look back I realize that was the point that Passion for the Game had arrived.

Tom Roewer

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 11:56:35 AM »
I grew up on a fantastic D. Ross layout in Granville, Oh.  Was fortunate enough to play junior golf on - Scioto, Moundbuilders C.C., Inverness, Canterbury, Canton Brookside, O.S.U. Scarlet.  (Many thanks to the Ohio Jr. G.A. and the Columbus District G.A.)  This definitely sparked my interest in course design.  I have been a club professional in florida for the last 18 years and at the very least love the office that I go to each day, and relish the characters that I have been blessed to meet and know through this great pastime.

Lou_Duran

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 12:28:07 PM »
Like Tiger and others, I've been out of the field looking in for many years.  My initial interest was in the development of a daily-fee course which could be built economically, then enhanced through time with cash from operations.  In the mid-'90s, I found on a wonderful site, raised the funds to purchase it, but was thwarted by the city where it was located.  Eventually, the city itself purchased the land, and built a nice municipal course and multi-sport complex.  The course itself has failed to perform for the city, but 10+ years later, I still wonder what it could have been.  My wife, a more practical person, tells me to thank God for unanswered prayers.

With the glut of new construction, I began looking for investment opportunities in golf.  There have been a few that peaked my interest, but on a risk-adjusted return basis, I have only come across a couple that made any sense, and neither provided sufficient control.

Realizing more and more that the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, I am coming to the conclusion that golf will always remain a leisure activity, an avocation to me.  While I am no longer a national rater, I still serve in that capacity in Texas and this gives me the opportunity to see some wonderful new courses and meet many outstanding people in all facets of the industry.

There seem to be two types of people in the golf industry:  those who really don't want to be in it but for a variety of reasons believe they are without options, and those who love it and despite all the negatives, can't see themselves doing anything else.

We've all faced the assistant pro who will barely look you in the eye at the counter and can't get rid of you fast enough.  It seems like most shops have at least one, and if the head pro is of the same mindset, the attitude spreads like a wild fire.  

Yesterday, I went to pick up a couple of books from an architect whom I've known since the early 90s.  I had intended to spend maybe five minutes to exchange pleasantries as both of us had other commitments.  Well, half an hour later we're still discussing his work, other courses, and various related topics.  No doubt that this fellow loves what he is doing, which in no small way accounts for his considerable success in a difficult market.

One of my heroes is a retired pilot who flew for Delta during that airline's glory years.  He is an excellent golfer, snow skier, husband, father, and all around good guy.  While some other pilots I knew complained about their routes, planes (some would say it was like driving a bus), being away from their familes, my friend once told me that on the days he flew, he woke up with excitement and couldn't wait to get to the airport early enough.  Even after many years of flying, he took no shortcuts in his preparations and kept foremost in his mind the great responsibility for the safety and well-being of his passengers.  BTW, nearing the age of 70, he won the regular and senior championships (separate events) at his home club.  He is also one of only two competitors in the field at both USGA Senior Amateur championships played at Bel-Air CC.

Very similar to the teaching profession, possibly due to market forces and the laws of supply and demand (low barriers to entry), a number of positions in the golf industry don't offer great pay, an easy schedule, and always pleasing working conditions.  Those who do well seem to take it as a vocation or calling.  And though relatively few proportionally, there are many in absolute numbers who are happy with their lot and can't imagine doing anything else.  Like my pilot friend, these are among the most fortunate people we will ever know.    

Aidan Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2006, 12:40:33 PM »
I studied law in Ireland, received a BCL (bloody clever lad) from UCC. Now I photograph grass for a living. You only get one crack at this so you might as well enjoy it. Slainte.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2006, 01:02:10 PM »
Like Tiger and others,

Add me to Lou's list:

http://www.watervilleresearch.com/companies/development/121-1.html

My friend will eventually cash out and sell off the land to a bigger developer, and maybe keep 25 lots for himself to develop. Maybe the Big Guy developer will build a golf course, but I doubt it as the economics just do not work in that market for golf.

Thankfully as a friend once said, "Some of the best deals that I ever did are the ones that I did not do."

ForkaB

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2006, 02:06:20 PM »
I've stumbled into the golf business in the Indian Summer of my life, largely due to my participation on this website.  I don't at all regret my "real" career as a strategy consultant/child minder, but it is cool to be paid for doing something new and exciting, and in the world of golf to boot!

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2006, 03:38:58 PM »
I helped build two courses as a college intern.

It sucked.  

Long hours, low wages, hot sun, belittling foremen and a general loneliness and unhappiness amongst the crew.

I suspect the golf biz. is a lot like the rest of 'merica.

10% love it and make 85% of the income.

you can figure out the rest of that equation :-\


 
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Scott Witter

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2006, 09:04:11 PM »
Adian:

You mentioned grass and crack in the same short post where you also said you studied LAW! ...are you sure all you do is take pictures...? ;D

Bryan Tipton

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2006, 10:44:24 PM »
Golf Course Superintendent--10 years

Love working in beautiful surroundings. Sunrise--Sunset  conditions are best.

SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2006, 01:47:03 PM »
I built my first course in 1975.  The course would have been nationally ranked, but it was a mini-golf course in my backyard with 9 holes and raters couldn't get to it very easily.  

Got into the business through a friend of a friend.  I wasn't looking to get into golf, but he was looking to get a real estate guy to help him and I fit the picture.  That was 10 years ago, and haven't regretted it except that I make less money than my friends, work harder, and get the occasional "get a real job" look from non-golfer types.  

I have been fortunate to meet some of the greatest people in the world through golf.

PjW

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2006, 04:13:14 PM »
I have been in the 'industry' 33 years.  In that time I have been an Assistant Supt., Golf Course Superintendent, Golf Agronomist, Golf Construction Coordinator, Golf Construction Superintendent, Golf Construction Manager and I am currantly working as a Golf Development Project Manager (Kukui`ula/Hawaii).  

I got into the business after doing an internship at Irvine Coast CC (1973).  I used to play a lot of golf before kids.  After spending all week working on a golf course you need to get away and it seems the kids always had other sports to participate in.  

You dont get into this business to make money, it has to be for the love of the industry.  In my case golf is more than a game, its my life.   8)

Dave_Wilber

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2006, 04:44:15 AM »
I feel really fortunate to have been getting paid to do what I love since 1982.

I started picking rocks on a construction site and helping with the grow-in (pole creek GC in Colo).

10 years later after getting some school and getting my first supt. job at a pretty early age I started in as an independent soils and turf consultant. I didn't have to do this because I got fired, I wanted to and the club I worked at begged me not to go. I still miss being a supt.

So for the last 14 years I'm a happy turfhead and golf construction bum. All kinds of interesting and amazing stuff has happened along the way..along with some big hassles and some personal tragedy. I love it and at times I hate it and I can't imagine doing anything else.

And I'm an old guy in the biz at 40. :)
---------
Dave Wilber
Wilber Consulting--Coaching, Writing Broadcasting, Agronomy
davewilber@yahoo.com
twitter: @turfgrasszealot
instagram @turfgrasszeal
"No one goes to play the great courses we talk about here because they do a nice bowl of soup. Soup helps, but you can’t putt in it." --Wilber

Pat Jones

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2006, 07:20:47 AM »
Stumbled -- completely by accident -- into the game as a staff writer for GCSAA in '86.  Knew nothing about golf, turf or the business, but learned pretty quickly back in the days when there were only about 25 people on the association staff (now there are about 120).  Since then:

- Ten years at GCSAA as Director of Communications, Development, etc.

- A couple of years as a Public Relations VP at an agency in K.C.

- Founding Publisher/Editorial Director of Golfdom for seven years.

- Went out on my own two years ago.  I'm now a columnist for Golf Course News, videomagazine host (Superintendents Video Magazine) and business/marketing consultant for companies in the turf biz.  I also do a lot of speaking at conferences, chapter meetings and industry events, which is really fun.

I simply adore the fact that I get to work with golf course superintendents every day.  Best people in the world.

PJ

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2006, 09:20:19 AM »
I used to wear-test Nike golf shoes back when they were very badly built (late 1980's, early 1990's).  Does that count?

Aaron Katz

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2006, 11:22:37 AM »
I'll give you credit, Dan.  That sounds like a cool -- and possibly painful -- job.  I'd love to be a Golf Digest club tester.  I also recently applied for the Wandering Golfer gig on the Fine Living Network.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.   ;D

JohnH

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2006, 03:52:39 PM »
In golf maintenance industry for 19 years -- Superintendent for last 9....

Dan Herrmann

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2006, 06:57:43 PM »
I'll give you credit, Dan.  That sounds like a cool -- and possibly painful -- job.  I'd love to be a Golf Digest club tester.  I also recently applied for the Wandering Golfer gig on the Fine Living Network.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.   ;D

Aaron - I worked at Nike from 85-93.  Boring computer stuff, but I did run the Nike golf league for a few years.  Great golf swag for tournament winners.  The funniest was a game-worn pair of Michael Jordan socks.  Nobody wanted them, but they're probably worth more than the other stuff!

Sean Leary

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2006, 08:22:44 PM »
Dan

I think I remember those.   Kinda off white with a leather thingy that covered the laces?  They were crap. ;D
« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 08:23:01 PM by Sean Leary »

mikes1160

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2006, 08:31:04 PM »
Work by day in advertising for John Deere. Moonlight as swing coach for Pat Jones.

mikes1160

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2006, 08:36:24 PM »
Brad Klein,

You've been sitting on the golf equivalent of Strat-O-Matic for all of these years and haven't done anything with it?!?! Get thee to Hasbro!!

Brad Klein

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2006, 09:57:36 PM »
Hasbro, is that some sort of urban ethnic thing?

Scaletta, I should have patented that game years ago, but I'd bet the drawings and game boards and ratio tables are in my parents' house somewhere -- though my mother is/was so compulsive she'd throw everything and anything out.

Tom Forsythe

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2006, 09:59:13 PM »
Started hanging around maintenance buildings when my Dad got into the business when I was 11 years old. Started working full time for him when I got out of high school and with the exception of a brief two year hiatus out of the business have been at it since 1978. Have been a superintendent for 14 years, moved to a new course to do the grow in and then stayed as superintendant manager for 3 years. Then spent 3 wonderful years at Highlands Links as GM and now almost 4 years as Director of Golf Operations for the city of Thunder Bay. There are certainly days when I question if the job is worth it but many more when there is no other place I would rather be. Travelling to see other courses can be a bit of a challenge and for the most part a recreational game of golf is non existant. You are constantly checking out your course for deficiencies or areas that need work and it can be tough to keep your mind on the game. The toughest part for us northern types is having to answer the What do you do all winter question we inevitably get when people find out what we do for a living.  

Sally Livingston

Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2006, 10:09:16 PM »
It's interesting to hear what everyone else has gone through.
I worked at Doral in F&B in the 90's, but at that time decided I'd rather sail than learn golf. 8) ??? A few years later our home course in Belleair, Fl, a Donald Ross design, hired Chip Powell to renovate the course/he hired the Donald Ross Society in for consultanting. At that point I found out how much I didn't know about golf and golf architecture and have been severly hooked ever since. I am now on the sales end of golf at Ginn's Reunion Resort in Orlando, trying to tie both ends in to make my job successful and enjoy it at the same time. Although my golf game will guarantee I'll always be behind a desk....... I haven't had a job more rewarding than being in the golf business. I doubt I'll ever get to be in the design end like a lot of you, but I still read and learn as much about it as I can .

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:How many of you work in the field of golf
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2006, 08:07:29 AM »
I'm here entirely by accident.  I don't mean that my mother didn't know my father.  It was a chance encounter with a poetry publisher that started me writing about golf courses and when I was made redundant from my real job it came to help pay the mortgage.  For better or for worse I'm involved in writing a number of club centenary books.  They are very hard work, totally uneconomic yet, quite satisfying in a way, for you have to do them really thoroughly and you really do get to know a club well.  On the other hand, most other articles or books are written without my leaving this desk.  How nice it would be to be in person at Cape Kidnappers in January rather than sitting in dark and damp Cheshire recycling the material that the PR people have provided for you.

But if I hadn't been a writer I wouldn't have learned about GCA and I wouldn't have met so many wonderful people who have generously given of their knowledge and interest to increase my meagre knowledge of golf courses, their architecture and architects.  

The really fun thing has been that because a number of publishers know that I can write quickly I get asked to do all sorts of other jubs, such as reformatting.  I even did that with a book on bonsai!