Questions for Mark Amundson - Sutton Bay :

[Ron Farris]

Playing Sutton Bay a few days ago I noticed a large number of tees that were clearly mis-aligned in relationship to the target or fairways.

The questions are :

Was this done on purpose?

If so, is this something that Grahm Marsh does on purpose?

[Doug Siebert]

If the teebox isn't symmetrical (it doesn't look square or oval based on that picture) how can you tell?

My dad is always complaining about tee markers that aren't set pointing down the fairway.  I always tell him that if he's aiming where the tee markers point him, he deserves what he gets!  I think the same thing would apply to tee boxes.

I guess if it makes some golfers feel uncomfortable its probably a worthy addition to the architect's toolbox, but I don't think its that uncommon to be in a situation where an individual golfer will aim somewhere other than where the teebox points him.  I'm not aiming where the tee markers/tee box point me as often as not, because it might aim at the corner of a dogleg when I'm cutting it, or point down the center of a fairway with trouble left which means I'm aiming 2' left of the right edge unless I'm having a good driving day

[Bryan Tipton]

Ron:

About time you got to play the course!  Graham marked out the locations, but the shapers where left with the task of leveling the final shape.  Most are round in shape.  The grow-in of the native makes the tee look mis-aligned sometimes.  Before grassing tee boxes looked fine. As far as I know it was not done on purpose.  #8 snake tee is the only one Mark wanted re-shaped when I was present.  We where asked to mow #18 so the tee box mowing pattern (stripes) matched the fairway mowing pattern. Getting tee markers lined up correctly is always a problem.  Workers get in a hurry.  I didn't like the big rock in front of the #7 skull tee your son is playing.  But Graham said the player who hits from that tee won't have to worry about it.

[Ron Farris]

Brian,
Great to hear from you on SB.
Yes I finally played - rained all day.  It hasn't rained in six years and it decides to rain the day I was trying to break the course record.  OK, I did break 90 on such a miserable day from the back tees - gluttonous.
That is my friends son.  He is headed to Oregon for college and this will be a nice contrast to Eugene CC.

Brian, the place really looks good and plays much like I imagine they envisioned.  Your efforts there certainly need to be commended.  

As for the tees and alignment, it is interesting to hear different takes on how or why the end up aligned the way they do.  Typically the ease of mowing will dictate the lines on the sides and front of tees.  If the grass type is the same then they certainly can migrate with the operator's whim.  One has to really stay upon it, if indeed that is a perceived problem.

As my playing partners said "it only bothers a few people in the world" --- play-on!

[Jim Franklin]

A lot of the tee boxes at Maidstone do not line you up directly with the fairway. If you don't pay attention to what you are doing, you could be sending your tee ball in a crazy direction. I like the fact that it makes you stop and think (a little ).

I have not been to Sutton Bay so I can't comment on those tees or what Graham Marsh was thinking, but Maidstone came to mind.

[Bryan Tipton]

Ron:

What I learned from you about grassing at Oahe Trails, I carried on to Sutton Bay.  The new bluegrass really perform well in that area.  

Thank you for all the help you have provided to me.

Someday I hope we can work together again.

[Mark_Amundson]

Ron:

Good to see you the other day.  I would apologize about the weather except I can't control it so you just have to play in what you find!  To answer your question, the tees were not purposefully designed to aim in a direction other than the fairway.  The tees were built with no specific pattern of shape as you find in some courses with all the tees being round or rectangle or some other shape.  It is very difficult to get the crew to always get the pegs lined up toward the fairway so I would just recommend that you look up and find your target before you hit the ball!  Hope to see you sometime soon.

Mark

[Ron Farris]

Mark,
 I was absolutely thrilled to see one of the workers at Sutton Bay placing the tee markers utilizing the method of spreading both arms and directing the belly button toward the target and placing the markers accordingly.  I have mentioned this method a thousand times to Mr. Habbe and he was finally able to see it in action.

Misaligned tees are really an oximoron in a sense.  In the beginning you simply put some sand down and hit away.  I trust the first few golf courses had very irregular tee shapes and if one was caught up in lines they would have gone crazy.

Thanks again for the opportunity to play Sutton.  You really need to be commended for what you have accomplished there.  Dispite the fine Scottish weather we had a great time.  The  gc conditions were great.  I loved the firmness of the greens.

Great course, great food - Thanks again.